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Username Post: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE        (Topic#98295)
lost 69 mailbu 
Member
Posts: 6

Loc: avon, oh
Reg: 04-18-05
04-21-05 05:20 PM - Post#678064    

New member seeking advice....

I've made up my mind to purchase a 350 Fast Burn and then do a cam upgrade. I've narrowed it down to two choices: 1)GM Hot Cam with 1.6 roller rockers...which would essentially give me a ZZ430 or 2)Comp Cam XR276HR (224/230@.050, .502/.510 lift) with 1.5 roller rockers. (I can't use 1.6 rockers with the Comp Cam b/c the factory springs are only good for .535 lift and I don't want to spend more money on the valvetrain after forking over $4,200 for the crate motor and $500 or so on cam and rocker arms.)

The motor will be going in a 3500 pound Malibu with 3.73 gears in a 700R-4 with a 2200-2500 converter. My goal is to run high 12s in a very reliable, streetable package.

Any advice or experience with either of these combos will be greatly appreciated.

 
shawnlee28 
Member
Posts: 56

Loc: so cal
Reg: 01-30-05
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-21-05 09:15 PM - Post#678065    
    In response to lost 69 mailbu

http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html
Its gunna take longer and cost more!!be prepared!!


 
lost 69 mailbu 
Member
Posts: 6

Loc: avon, oh
Reg: 04-18-05
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-22-05 09:20 AM - Post#678066    
    In response to shawnlee28

Interesting article/read. Combo 3 appears to be the closest to what I'm looking at. However, the cam appears to be hydraulic/flat tappet. I'd have to imagine either the GM Hot Cam or the Comp Cam that I'm looking at will yield better results as they're both hydraulic roller cams. I'm not sure how the FastBurn heads comare either but from everything I've read, they certainly appear to flow pretty well.

I'm trying to find the better package since they cost about the same - Hot Cam with 1.6 rockers or Comp Cam with 1.5 rockers. I'm faced with the classic question of what's better - more lift in the Hot Cam (.525/525 GM vs. .502/.510 Comp) or more duration with the Comp Cam (224/230 Comp vs. 218/228 GM). However, I also realize that I may be beating my head against the wall as there might not be that much of a NET difference other than ideal quality.

 
Ninjaman 
Senior Member
Posts: 108

Loc: Stockton,Ca usa
Reg: 04-16-02
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-22-05 02:16 PM - Post#678067    
    In response to lost 69 mailbu

I don't get it. You have almost 5K into this and you are worried about new springs? I believe the heads can handle the .030+ extra lift of the 1.6s. That should be good for 15-20 HP accross the powerband. How bad do you want to go fast?

Rick
74 Vette Semi-Pro Tourer


 
grumpyvette 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator -- Performance Subject Matter Expert --
Posts: 16136
grumpyvette
Age: 66
Loc: FLORIDA USA
Reg: 03-16-01
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-22-05 02:23 PM - Post#678068    
    In response to Ninjaman

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/3509/pro...minum-Heads.htm

your goal is to run 12s with out potential major problems!
why not get a big block complete with a warranty that has [/440hp and 500 ft lbs of tq without needing to swap cams and trash the warranty
youll have a more valuable car, and it will run much better, be far less tempermental and have a wider tq curve
" " IF YOU CAN'T SMOKE THE TIRES FROM A 60 MPH ROLLING START YOUR ENGINE NEEDS MORE WORK !"


 
lost 69 mailbu 
Member
Posts: 6

Loc: avon, oh
Reg: 04-18-05
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-22-05 02:32 PM - Post#678069    
    In response to Ninjaman

If I were building this engine myself, I wouldn't worry about spending money on better springs at all. However, I feel the primary reason to buy a crate motor is to pay a small premium for having someone else do the work so that you can simply drop the motor into your car...and go. In other words, the more money I put into it after the fact, the poorer the choice the crate motor becomes from an economic perspective. If I was building it from scratch, it would be a matter of simply using what you wanted to end up with from the beginning. Springs, retainers, locks, etc. are certainly immaterial compared to the $5,000 or so I'd have in this. However, the buck has to stop somewhere. There's always a better, faster alternative out there. The question becomes: is it really worth it?

In other words, I'm looking to swap out the cam and rocker arms...and be done. I just want to get it right the first time and not second guess myself. My guess is that others have done the same and I'm hoping to hear how it went.

Thanks for the feedback though.

 
lost 69 mailbu 
Member
Posts: 6

Loc: avon, oh
Reg: 04-18-05
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-22-05 03:06 PM - Post#678070    
    In response to grumpyvette

You're right - running 12s w/o potential problems is indeed my goal. I never bothered to price out that motor since I've always been a small block guy but you make a very strong practical and economic argument. The ZZ383 was also a candidate for me.

One thing that I didn't mention is that I'm "replacing" my first car - a '69 Malibu that I bought and built up while in high school but was forced to sell my senior year in college. 11 years later, I'm finally at a point economically that I can afford to get back into the hobby. Being somewhat nostalagic (which is never the smart way to go $$$ wise), I wanted to replicate my first car as much as possible - but better. That means trying to find a solid, streetable 350 that will hopefully provide me with years of reliable service and enjoyment.

I started out looking at the ZZ4 but quickly realized the 350 Fast Burn is a better value b/c for $500, you get much better heads. Having the better heads has me looking more carefully at my cam selection. The Hot Cam is certainly a proven and well respected performer. However, the more I thought about it, the more I felt that I could be leaving 20 hp or so on the table by ignoring the Comp Cam and possibly upgrading to a Performer RPM manifold. Then again, these cams might be so close in overall performance that I might be making much ado about nothing.

Sorry about the long-winded response.

BTW: I liked your story re: you and your friendly rival's 69 and 68 Camaros. Good read.

 
lost 69 mailbu 
Member
Posts: 6

Loc: avon, oh
Reg: 04-18-05
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-25-05 06:20 PM - Post#678071    
    In response to grumpyvette

you've had me thinking the past few days and after further review, i think the ZZ383 (425 HP/449 ft. lbs.) might actually be the best way for me to go. it comes from the factory with a .509/.528 lift, 222/230@.050 roller cam already installed...plus 33 more cubic inches. it doesn't come with an intake manifold or a distributor, but i can find it locally for $4,650.

what i find interesting is that GM switched to a dual profile cam here and didn't go with the Hot Cam. however, they've stayed with 1.5 rockers to keep lift below .535. since this motor comes with the same fastburn heads as a zz430 clone, i think this answered the question as to which of the cams that i was originally looking at would have been better...the dual profile Comp Cam.

 
enigma57 
Senior Member
Posts: 9744
enigma57
Age: 66
Loc: Texas
Reg: 10-28-00
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-28-05 05:45 PM - Post#678072    
    In response to lost 69 mailbu

Anthony, if you like the 425 HP ZZ383 GMPP crate motor......

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/ZZ383-425.html

Check out this 500 HP version that Sallee Chevrolet put together utilizing the GMPP 383 short block, Holley 750 HP carb, MSD ignition, Edelbrock Victor Jr. intake, AFR 195 heads with 58cc chambers and Edelbrock Performer RPM hydraulic roller cam......

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/383-500.html

By the way...... The #2204 Edelbrock Performer RPM hydraulic roller cam specs listed on the Sallee tech sheet are incorrect. That cam is ground on 112 degree LSA, has 234/238 degrees duration @ 0.050" and valve lift with 1.5:1 rockers is 0.539 in./0.548 in. You can pull up the cam specs under the 'Valve Train Components' heading at......

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/index.html

Hope this helps,

Harry
"Dark and difficult times lie ahead, Harry. Soon we must all face the choice between what is right...... And what is easy."
Albus Dumbledore


 
lost 69 mailbu 
Member
Posts: 6

Loc: avon, oh
Reg: 04-18-05
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-28-05 06:35 PM - Post#678073    
    In response to enigma57

wow - there's no shortage of torque or horsepower there.

thanks for the input!

 
enigma57 
Senior Member
Posts: 9744
enigma57
Age: 66
Loc: Texas
Reg: 10-28-00
Re: ZZ430 CAM CHOICE
04-28-05 08:15 PM - Post#678074    
    In response to lost 69 mailbu

True. 500 HP @ 5,700 RPM and 491 ft./lbs. of torque @ 4,600 RPM in streetable form will get the groceries home in time to watch the next installment of '24'...... No problem. As far as I am aware, Sallee still extends the same warrantee to their shop built crate engines as the GMPP crate engines receive. Or you can browse through their various engine combos and choose a parts recipe to build one of your own.

Good Luck and Happy Motoring,

Harry
"Dark and difficult times lie ahead, Harry. Soon we must all face the choice between what is right...... And what is easy."
Albus Dumbledore


 
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