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 Page 1 of 4 1234
Username Post: Silverado Rusted Brake Lines - NHTSA and Consumer Affairs        (Topic#274830)
ss3964spd 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 4180
ss3964spd
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
01-12-12 01:17 PM - Post#2178623    

All,

I know there have been many posts in this and other forums regarding rusting brake lines on 1999 through 2006 Silverados, Suburbans, etc, and I've just gone through this issue myself.

My story is at the end of this post but just below are some links that I encourage anyone who has experienced this problem to view. In short, the NHTSA has an Engineering Analysis open on this issue and the more people that file reports with the NHTSA (as well as Consumer Affairs) the more likely it will be that owners could receive some compensation for repairs needed or already completed.

To view the NHTSA Engineering Analysis file click here: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/defects/ and enter EA11001 in the “Quick Search” box.

To file a NHTSA complaint click here: https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ You will need your VIN.

To see the list of complaints filed with Consumer Affairs click here: http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/gm_silve...

To file a Consumer Affairs report click here: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/php/a_report.php?c...

My story:

After returning to the truck from an errand I started the engine and, upon depressing the brake pedal in order to put the vehicle in gear, the brake pedal went to the floor. No warning lamps of any sort were illuminated prior to the brake pedal going to the floor. Pumping of the pedal did not produce any resistance. After a few minutes the brake fluid level warning lamp came on. Brake fluid was added but did not result in any resistance from the pedal. Had to have the truck towed home where it then sat over-night.

The next morning I observed a large wet spot on the driveway just below the driver’s side door. I looked underneath and saw that ALL of the brake lines going into or out of the ABS module were severely corroded and at least one had obviously been leaking brake fluid.

The truck was towed to a Chevrolet dealer. I arrived as they were raising the truck on a lift. Evidently they also added some brake fluid because quite a large puddle was forming on the shop floor below where the brake lines enter the ABS module. The technician, the service consultant, and I all observed the rusted brake lines, and fluid was literally dripping from one that had obviously burst.
The dealer advised that GM does not make replacement steel brake lines so all the lines would need to be hand fabricated by the technician. Dealer also advised that the ABS module may have to be replaced because of how corroded the brake line fittings are (fittings are steel, ABS module is aluminum) where they screw into the module. We also observed that the fuel lines were severely corroded.

I have owned many vehicles far older and with far more mileage and have never had to replace the steel brake lines. I believe the design is flawed (the routing and placement of lines and module) or the brake line material (steel, instead of stainless steel) is insufficient. I have photos and the old parts.

Dan
Dan

If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.


 
LMC Trucks
george88gta 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1765
george88gta
Loc: new york
Reg: 04-23-03
01-12-12 02:27 PM - Post#2178647    
    In response to ss3964spd

I think the bottom line here is that no one ( GM or the NHTSA) is going to do anything until someone gets killed. I replaced tranny cooler lines and fuel lines on my 03. The PO had the brake lines repaired, but I can see some rust starting in the unrepaired sections. I plan to replace all the lines with stainless steel. Too bad GM wont step up to the plate unless there is serious injury or worse. Overall, the Silverado is a very nice truck.

 
rcr3 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1979
rcr3
Age: 63
Loc: Manheim Pa. U.S.A.
Reg: 11-24-02
01-13-12 04:05 AM - Post#2178838    
    In response to george88gta

Well,don't buy a Dodge either.I worked at a Chrysler dealership for 41 years and a week rarely went by that I didn't replace a rotted out fuel or brake line on a Ram!
'12 Cruze RS LTZ
'73 Nova hatchback Sold 12/23/12
'37 Chevy cp.SOLD!!6/7/14
'74 Nova Custom cp.
'73 Nova pro-street project
'00 Chevy Blazer
'95 Sonoma 4X4 totaled 9/6/12
'06 Z71 Sierra Ex Cab
'67 Camaro




 
ss3964spd 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 4180
ss3964spd
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
01-13-12 09:22 AM - Post#2178930    
    In response to rcr3

My truck has just over 82000 miles on it. In really good shape and I quite like the truck.

It's just a little frustrating. I've owned a lot of vehicles over the years and only one needed a single line replaced. That one was on an '84 F150 and the truck was about 20 years old at the time it went.

My '04 Silverado needed ALL the lines replaced - they were rusted that bad. Primarily where the lines go into the ABS module. The fuel lines, you know - the ones that are under 60 or 70 PSI whenever the engine is running, were also badly rusted.

I took a few pictures of the brake and fuel lines when the truck was on the lift at the shop - I'll try to get them posted here in the next few days.

Again, if you've got one of these trucks please take a few minutes to register your complaint with NHTSA (and Consumer Affairs). I can't help but believe that the more reports they get the more seriously they will take the issue. I'm certain there have been accidents due to the rusted brake lines. At the very least have your truck inspected.

Dan
Dan

If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.


 
powerband 
Member
Posts: 57
powerband
Loc: NY's Mid Hudson Valley or...
Reg: 04-15-04
01-20-12 08:44 AM - Post#2181396    
    In response to ss3964spd

I called Chevy customer service to ask about the problem and was forwarded (.. long after your call is important to us...) to a call center who said no TSB's or recalls on brake lines - with the obligatory end tag"is their anything else I can help you with today" I asked where I was calling -answer the Phillipines.

Here's repost of some pics of my '04 - pampered 30K Silverado's lines:












"everything in my garage has a story..."


 
black95jimmy 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8745
black95jimmy
Age: 63
Loc: Venice, FL
Reg: 01-05-02
01-20-12 09:09 AM - Post#2181411    
    In response to powerband

That's UGLY. My rear lines let go 3 years ago, IN THE DRIVEWAY, was I lucky!
82 Monte Carlo SC, 355 w/Vortec heads, roller rockers, 670 Street Avenger, Pypes true duals.
2000 Sub.5.3L 40 Gallons of gas @ $2.92/gal. bla bla bla.


 
Chevrolet Customer Service 
Contributor
Posts: 212
Chevrolet Customer Service
Reg: 07-05-10
01-20-12 11:51 AM - Post#2181472    
    In response to powerband

I would be happy to take a look at your case if your would like. Please feel free to contact me privately with the case number for more assistance. Thank you.

Tricia, Chevrolet Customer Service.
>>>>>> Please check out the new Chevrolet Owner Center at https://my.chevrolet.com/ for more vehicle information!


 
powerband 
Member
Posts: 57
powerband
Loc: NY's Mid Hudson Valley or...
Reg: 04-15-04
01-20-12 03:00 PM - Post#2181559    
    In response to Chevrolet Customer Service

  • Chevrolet Customer Service Said:
I would be happy to take a look at your case if your would like. Please feel free to contact me privately with the case number for more assistance. Thank you.

Tricia, Chevrolet Customer Service.




Tricia, Chevrolet Customer Service.,

I received no "case number" or any concern from the Phillipine-based Chevrolet Customer Service help line. I provided my VIN number on the call line and she read me the other safety recall campaigns for my vehicle and she was done.

As i]Chevrolet Customer Service , I would prefer if you explained on the public forum what will be done for me and other Chevy Silverado owners with this obviously endemic manufacturer's defect. This seems simple enough if Chevrolet is serious about addressing this critical safety issue in the many posts here and across the internet forums.

If disclosure of Chev's means of assistance with this consumer safety issue is not possible, please at least post a contact number other than Chevrolet's diversive offshore call line or explain how actual assistance can be obtained .



Thank You
"everything in my garage has a story..."


Edited by powerband on 01-20-12 03:13 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
John 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7196
John
Age: 45
Loc: Montgomery, AL
Reg: 01-15-02
01-20-12 06:17 PM - Post#2181659    
    In response to powerband

I'm not sure why anyone would sign up to fight this fight - even if you are upside down on the truck. It's not like we're talking about leather or a PW/PDL, it's your brakes.
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400


 
joek3167 
My Birthday Week
Posts: 68

Age: 51
Loc: MO.
Reg: 05-08-09
01-21-12 10:06 AM - Post#2181839    
    In response to John

I have a 1999 k-2500 with 174,000 on it and do not have this problem it looks like some may need to keep their vehicles a liitle cleaner

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25860
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
01-21-12 01:54 PM - Post#2181932    
    In response to joek3167

If your K2500 is a carryover ("classic", 1988-1998) body style then it is an entirely different truck and these do not seem nearly as susceptible to the problem. All of the reports of premature rusting of the lines are coming from the GMT800 series trucks - the 1999-up redesign. I say this because your "K2500" designation implies the older body.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
joek3167 
My Birthday Week
Posts: 68

Age: 51
Loc: MO.
Reg: 05-08-09
01-21-12 03:02 PM - Post#2181954    
    In response to someotherguy



 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25860
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
01-21-12 05:17 PM - Post#2182001    
    In response to joek3167

Thanks for the pic, clears it up. That would typically be known as a Silverado 2500 then. When people refer to them as "K2500" they're generally talking about the previous body style.

With as many of the GMT800 trucks with rusted out lines popping up vs. the older ones, I'd say there IS pretty good evidence of a materials problem - not necessarily one of maintenance/upkeep. You can debate it but I'd bet you'll find many owners that will disagree.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
joek3167 
My Birthday Week
Posts: 68

Age: 51
Loc: MO.
Reg: 05-08-09
01-21-12 10:26 PM - Post#2182087    
    In response to someotherguy

All i know is this has been a pretty good truck, but i do high maintenance on it

 
black95jimmy 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8745
black95jimmy
Age: 63
Loc: Venice, FL
Reg: 01-05-02
01-22-12 05:26 AM - Post#2182120    
    In response to joek3167

  • Quote:
it looks like some may need to keep their vehicles a liitle cleaner



It is not a "clean" issue, it is a material issue. The trucks from the Nothern States were subjected to road salt and the cheaper brake lines used could not take the corrosive effects of the salt, simple as that!!

My Suburban lived in MI for the first 5 years of it's life and that was enough to cause my brake line issues. Been in FL for the last 7 years!
82 Monte Carlo SC, 355 w/Vortec heads, roller rockers, 670 Street Avenger, Pypes true duals.
2000 Sub.5.3L 40 Gallons of gas @ $2.92/gal. bla bla bla.


 
joek3167 
My Birthday Week
Posts: 68

Age: 51
Loc: MO.
Reg: 05-08-09
01-22-12 07:30 AM - Post#2182147    
    In response to black95jimmy

just the trucks from the northern state ok

 
Tom's05 
Member
Posts: 162

Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 12-01-06
01-22-12 01:55 PM - Post#2182301    
    In response to Chevrolet Customer Service

  • Chevrolet Customer Service Said:
I would be happy to take a look at your case if your would like. Please feel free to contact me privately with the case number for more assistance. Thank you.

Tricia, Chevrolet Customer Service.



I'm about convinced that Tricia's job is to visit here every now and then and make a little show of Chevy giving a damn about it's owners. I PM'd her a few times regarding the HVAC resistor recall. I wrote her that my dealer didn't want to take my information, she replied I should visit my dealer. I wrote back pointing out I already tried what she suggested, I've gotten no response. Real helpful, Trish. Thanks for nothing.

 
Chevrolet Customer Service 
Contributor
Posts: 212
Chevrolet Customer Service
Reg: 07-05-10
01-23-12 07:09 AM - Post#2182550    
    In response to powerband

I would be happy to look into this for you with the last eight of your VIN. Each situation is evaluated on a case by case basis.

Tricia, Chevrolet Customer Service.
>>>>>> Please check out the new Chevrolet Owner Center at https://my.chevrolet.com/ for more vehicle information!


 
phat rat 
Contributor
Posts: 324

Age: 70
Loc: muskegon mi
Reg: 09-02-09
01-23-12 09:27 AM - Post#2182597    
    In response to Chevrolet Customer Service

That answer is saying those of us who have had this problem are SOL. I bought my 02 new and had to replace all brake lines in 07 with less that 90,000 mi on it. This truck may have been driven a total of 200 mi off pavement. The past 6 months,with 115,000 mi, I've had to replace both the engine oil cooler lines and trans cooler lines. On top of that I had to replace the rear half of the transfer case because of a faulty design there also. The expense in the last six months was over $1700 that really was because of inferior materials, design or both. The dealers are well aware of the transfer case problem as is the aftermarket. I back this statement up by the fact that when I called dealers in my area to price the parts needed they knew by the part numbers I was telling them just what the part was and I was told of how common the problem was. Also a heavier and better designed replacement part is available in the aftermarket

 
John 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7196
John
Age: 45
Loc: Montgomery, AL
Reg: 01-15-02
01-23-12 09:54 AM - Post#2182602    
    In response to Tom's05

  • Tom's05 Said:
  • Chevrolet Customer Service Said:
I would be happy to take a look at your case if your would like. Please feel free to contact me privately with the case number for more assistance. Thank you.

Tricia, Chevrolet Customer Service.



I'm about convinced that Tricia's job is to visit here every now and then and make a little show of Chevy giving a damn about it's owners. I PM'd her a few times regarding the HVAC resistor recall. I wrote her that my dealer didn't want to take my information, she replied I should visit my dealer. I wrote back pointing out I already tried what she suggested, I've gotten no response. Real helpful, Trish. Thanks for nothing.



I wouldn't expect Tricia to do any more or any less than she's allowed to do - she's not making the rules. You could have traded that truck when it was burning oil and you can still trade it now. But you can't force anyone to fix it for free, even the brake lines, much less an HVAC issue. If it's under your skin that bad, let someone else have it - seems like it's been nothing but a headache to you.
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400


 
Tom's05 
Member
Posts: 162

Loc: Connecticut
Reg: 12-01-06
01-23-12 08:03 PM - Post#2182795    
    In response to John

  • John Said:
But you can't force anyone to fix it for free,... much less an HVAC issue. If it's under your skin that bad, let someone else have it - seems like it's been nothing but a headache to you.



I think I can expect them to reimburse me for repairs when they issue a recall saying they will. I suppose it's my fault for DIY instead of $$$$ at the dealer and not keeping my original receipts for two years. I didn't expect a miracle from Tricia, but more than one canned response would have been nice.
Trust me, the truck shopping has begun, and Chevy is not on the list. But first I have to fix the poorly designed Evap purge solenoid. Hopefully it will hold together long enough to dump onto the next poor sap.

 
John 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7196
John
Age: 45
Loc: Montgomery, AL
Reg: 01-15-02
01-23-12 08:19 PM - Post#2182800    
    In response to Tom's05

I was speaking more in general about fighting them to fix something obviously wrong, if the brake lines rust and fail before the body there's a big problem. I don't have any emotional investment in anything newer, the older stuff is much more predictable.
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400


 
ss3964spd 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 4180
ss3964spd
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
01-24-12 09:22 AM - Post#2182935    
    In response to John

  • powerband Said:









Hey - those look quite familiar. As in, exactly like mine.

Additionally, my fuel lines looked exactly like the brake lines, and they run outside the frame rails under the cab. A little scarry to consider what would happen to those brittle fuel lines in the event of a side impact. I had those replaced too.

Strangely, GM makes/offers complete replacement fuel lines but does not make/offer replacement brake lines - which means there is an enormous amount of labor time involved with hand fabricating the individual lines.

Folks, the intent of this thread is to raise the awareness of this issue so that owners, and prospective owners, inspect and repair as necessary in order to ensure saftey, and to spur owners to file a report with the NHTSA and Consumer Affairs.

It's a numbers game for any manufacturer. 1 out of 10,000 gets no attention. 100 out of 10,000 is a different matter, 1000 out of 10K is obvious. Take the small amount of time to file a complaint, on your behalf and that of other owners.

Tricia, I appreciate you looking at this thread and I understand the position you are in. Although my case with GM is probably closed feel free to have a look at it. Case number 71-1026838138.

Dan
Dan

If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.


 
ss3964spd 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 4180
ss3964spd
Loc: Fairfax, Va
Reg: 12-21-00
01-24-12 09:37 AM - Post#2182941    
    In response to ss3964spd

Let me also add this. I contacted GM and opened a case number at the same time my truck was at the Chevrolet dealer for the repairs.

The representative I spoke with did try to help by actually calling my service advisor. Evidently, according to the rep, GM declined to offer any assistance because the service advisor told her that there was no defect in materials or workmanship.

And oh, I also had to have the evap purge solenoid replaced - kept getting the "tighten fuel cap" message and setting the CEL. Unfortunately the dealer tried to up-sell me by saying their diagnosis of the message and CEL showed the the purge valve needed to be replaced AND the intake manifold needed to be re-sealed. Since the engine ran completely fine I opted for the purge valve only and have not seen the TFC message or the CEL since.

Really? REALLY? You're into me for over 4k in repairs of the brake lines, the fuel lines, and the rusted, disintegrating, parking brake backing plates and you want to try to sell me something I don't need?

I've also replaced the blower resistor - twice, but I did recently receive the notice from GM that they'd do it.

Dan
Dan

If I recall correctly my memory is excellent. My ability to access it is not.


 
axedental 
Member
Posts: 67

Loc: Custer Park, IL
Reg: 12-14-02
02-17-12 04:12 PM - Post#2191773    
    In response to ss3964spd

I have an '04 2500HD GMC Sierra LLY diesel with 139000 in Illinois. Unfortunately there's also a lot of rusty plumbing under this one as well. I've had a LOT of GM trucks and suburbans, and I also agree there is something about this style. Maybe it's the way the mild steel lines are routed so they have real good exposure to the road salt. I should have undercoated them. My '94 and my '96 with Ziebart undercoating are still PERFECT!

I just replaced lines on my '87 K2500 Suburban like, two years ago, but this one sure won't last that long. The heck with the stealer, I'll do it myself as I don't like anyone else touching my vehicles if I can help it, and the dealer will probably just break something else expensive that they can sell me.
'50 Chevy 2dr Sedan 383ci, 700R4
'87 Chevy Suburban 3/4 ton 4x4
'94 GMC Sonoma "motorized wheelbarrow"
'96 GMC Suburban 3/4 ton 454
'04 GMC Duramax LLY
'10 John Deere 3038E


 
elcamino 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4993
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
02-19-12 06:47 AM - Post#2192390    
    In response to axedental

A friend has a big repair shop and he been telling me that the amount of salt they are using on the roads nowadays is causing a lot of rust on newer cars like he has not seen in 30 yrs. At least around here they salt the roads daily due to liability. Every time someone slides on ice and gets in an accident, they sue the state. So the result it to salt it.

There is only one way to stop rust on vehicles and that's to build them out of high quality stainless steel but then no one could afford to buy a vehicle.

Your blaming GM for something they have no control over, the environment the vehicle is being used in. Also, its not fair to say, I had one for 20 yrs and it did not rust but this one is. Blame it on all the people who sued because the roads were slippery when they had a accident in which it probably their fault. I worked for 30 yrs for a state DOT and often money paid to lawyers etc was more than we spent on road repairs, everyone sues because they can. The complaints about slippery roads were astronomical. It got to the point that every bit of sand put on the road is also mixed with salt. If you like in area where they plow the roads, you are being exposed to salt everyday.

Friend has a 2006 Ford F250 that looks as bad as those photo's.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L


 
wreckmech 
Member
Posts: 118

Loc: Parsippany, NJ
Reg: 10-08-02
02-19-12 10:46 AM - Post#2192498    
    In response to ss3964spd

  • ss3964spd Said:
  • powerband Said:









Hey - those look quite familiar. As in, exactly like mine.

Additionally, my fuel lines looked exactly like the brake lines, and they run outside the frame rails under the cab. A little scarry to consider what would happen to those brittle fuel lines in the event of a side impact. I had those replaced too.

Strangely, GM makes/offers complete replacement fuel lines but does not make/offer replacement brake lines - which means there is an enormous amount of labor time involved with hand fabricating the individual lines.

Folks, the intent of this thread is to raise the awareness of this issue so that owners, and prospective owners, inspect and repair as necessary in order to ensure saftey, and to spur owners to file a report with the NHTSA and Consumer Affairs.

It's a numbers game for any manufacturer. 1 out of 10,000 gets no attention. 100 out of 10,000 is a different matter, 1000 out of 10K is obvious. Take the small amount of time to file a complaint, on your behalf and that of other owners.

Tricia, I appreciate you looking at this thread and I understand the position you are in. Although my case with GM is probably closed feel free to have a look at it. Case number 71-1026838138.

Dan


LEM has a listing for complete stainless steel brake line kits for around $340....Might be worth looking into...Mine are starting to rust, and I think that's the way I'm gonna go...


 
powerband 
Member
Posts: 57
powerband
Loc: NY's Mid Hudson Valley or...
Reg: 04-15-04
02-20-12 06:10 AM - Post#2192839    
    In response to wreckmech

LEM has a listing for complete stainless steel brake line kits for around $340....Might be worth looking into...Mine are starting to rust, and I think that's the way I'm gonna go...

It was the short complicated bends over the frame rails to/from the ABS box that convinced me to get complete Pre-Bent set (SS ). Pre-Bent are not avilable OEM parts AFAIH. Lines inside front to right-front and rear were a challenge with a lift.

http://www.classictube.com/resources/product-rel ea...







"everything in my garage has a story..."


 
wreckmech 
Member
Posts: 118

Loc: Parsippany, NJ
Reg: 10-08-02
02-20-12 12:23 PM - Post#2193006    
    In response to powerband

I think the ones from LEM are complete from the master cylinder....I don't have my hard copy catalog with me, so I'm not sure....

 
black95jimmy 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8745
black95jimmy
Age: 63
Loc: Venice, FL
Reg: 01-05-02
02-21-12 11:45 AM - Post#2193427    
    In response to powerband

  • powerband Said:
LEM has a listing for complete stainless steel brake line kits for around $340....Might be worth looking into...Mine are starting to rust, and I think that's the way I'm gonna go...

It was the short complicated bends over the frame rails to/from the ABS box that convinced me to get complete Pre-Bent set (SS ). Pre-Bent are not avilable OEM parts AFAIH. Lines inside front to right-front and rear were a challenge with a lift.

http://www.classictube.com/resources/product-rel ea...












LEM or LMC?
82 Monte Carlo SC, 355 w/Vortec heads, roller rockers, 670 Street Avenger, Pypes true duals.
2000 Sub.5.3L 40 Gallons of gas @ $2.92/gal. bla bla bla.


 
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