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Username Post: 605 box to CPP 500 box        (Topic#274271)
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
12-31-11 02:11 PM - Post#2174311    

I have had a 605 steering box on my 56 for many years now - and it is leaking quite badly. I have read the various posts concerning the 500 box from CPP and am considering the change.

Here's my question -- my current box is VERY close to the exhaust manifold and in fact is probably touching it. Is the new 500 box bigger... smaller.... same size? If it is even SLIGHTLY bigger it will not fit. Smaller would be better.

Here's what I currently have. See how close it is? (I am using the 2.5 inch Corvette Rams Horn manifolds).


1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
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retiredrich 
Contributor
Posts: 918
retiredrich
Loc: NE
Reg: 10-05-07
12-31-11 02:22 PM - Post#2174316    
    In response to Fishermark

This past Summer I changed from a 605 to a 500. At the time, the headers on the car were my concern with the 500 box, but it turned out okay. Plan B was going to be, buy a set of Patriot headers. I read/heard they will fit with the 500 box. Just a thought for you if your manifolds don't work.


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25766

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
12-31-11 02:26 PM - Post#2174317    
    In response to Fishermark

The CPP500 box is slightly smaller where yours is touching or close to touching. It is slightly bigger than the 605 just above and below that spot, where the 500's top cover bolts are.

I think you'll probably be ok.

 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-01-12 02:38 PM - Post#2174663    
    In response to Rick_L

Good to know. Thanks!
1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
bowtiefan 
"7th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2102

Loc: Vacaville, CA
Reg: 02-19-04
01-01-12 10:17 PM - Post#2174792    
    In response to Fishermark

I recently bought a set of Sanderson cast iron headers that they claim will clear the 500 box. I don't have the box yet, so I can't verify that.
Ken
38 & 39 2dr sedan, 41 coupe, 54 convertible, 56 Nomad, 57 210 2dr sdn, 70 Camaro RS, Corvettes; 57, 61, 65 396 coupe, 67 427 convert, 69 & 72 T-top, 88 coupe,91 ZR-1, 07 Z06, 07 Silverado, 09 BMW 135i convert.
http://www.picturetrail.com/ken58


 
56 thing 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 92
56 thing
Reg: 03-20-05
01-02-12 05:06 PM - Post#2175027    
    In response to Fishermark

Attachment: Stearing_box_1_resized.jpg (156.27 KB) 52 View(s)



Attachment: Stearing_box_2_resized.jpg (174.55 KB) 50 View(s)



Hope these pictures help. The headers are Headman part # 68600 WI, my motor is mounted ¾” forward of stock position, I am using a hydraulic clutch set up as these headers will not work with a mechanical clutch set up. They fit very well everywhere with the exception of the one tube I had to dimple in order to accommodate the 500 box I also had to grind about 3/16” off the corner of the steering box, the clearance between the box and the header is about 1/16” or less.
I understand that patriot makes a header that will fit with the 500 box with no modifications required. I am thinking that I will order a set of them eventually.
56 BEl AIR 2 DOOR SEDAN
1999 Chevy Silverado 1500
2003 GMC Sierra 2500



 
cpptech 
Classic Performance Products "Site Sponsor"
Posts: 897
cpptech
Loc: CA. USA
Reg: 12-08-06
01-04-12 08:55 AM - Post#2175573    
    In response to Rick_L

Thanks RickL, Yes were the 605 is round on top were you are hitting the manifold the 500 is squared off like you see in the other posts. It is smaller were it needs to be! Thanks
Thanks,
Aaron @ Classic Performance
800-522-5004


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9479
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
01-04-12 12:31 PM - Post#2175634    
    In response to Fishermark

My car has a small block with Brodix heads that move the manifold/header gasket surface out just a little farther than stock. I tried to use 2.5" ram's horns, but they wouldn't clear my 500 box. I ended up using my old headers, but had to "flat spot" two of the tubes.

That said, all these cars vary a little dimensionally, so what works OK on one car may not fit on another. Also, my engine is moved forward 3/4".

Tonight I will post a picture showing where I had clearance problems.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25766

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
01-04-12 03:07 PM - Post#2175682    
    In response to cpptech

Yes but the difference is pretty small. Don't expect big things.

 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-04-12 04:24 PM - Post#2175716    
    In response to Rick_L

Bottom line, it sounds like it will work in my situation. If the 605 box currently fits, and it does, then the 500 box should fit. My engine is in the stock position with front and rear mounts - not moved forward.
1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-07-12 12:10 PM - Post#2176715    
    In response to Fishermark

Not to beat a "dead horse" here... but I would hate to buy a new box and have it not fit. Here is another view showing a glimmer of light between the box and manifold. But from this view, I notice that the angle of the box in relation to the manifold may bring the squared corner into play. Thoughts???

1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
5Larry7 
"11th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1753
5Larry7
Loc: Dallas, TX
Reg: 05-17-04
01-07-12 12:41 PM - Post#2176717    
    In response to Fishermark

I made the switch from a 605 to a 500. I use Patriot Headers, and it is close but they do clear. As far as the actual switch is concerned, it bolted in with out any changes to what I had done for my 605 box. My engine is located in the stock position. BTW, it was well worth it, the car drives so much nicer; more road feel and the ratio is a bit quicker. As you most probably know, anytime you deviate from stock with "hot rod" parts, be prepared for some possible modifications. Fortunately, Tir-Fives have been around and most every possible modification has already been made to the cars so there is a wealth of information out there to draw from. I am building/modifying a '51 Studebaker now, so virtually everything I do on the car has to be done at least twice to get it right! You won't really know how it fits until you try it. But from personal experience, the 605 to 500 swap is worth it. Good luck.
'57 210, Blown 327 cid, Holley HP TBI, 700R4, A/C
'51 Studebaker Starlite coupe, 350, TH400, GV OD.
'96 Replica of a 1950's Teardrop Trailer.


Edited by 5Larry7 on 01-07-12 12:43 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
5nomad5 
Senior Member
Posts: 713
5nomad5
Loc: Bremerton, WA
Reg: 02-16-00
01-08-12 10:55 AM - Post#2177019    
    In response to Rick_L

I recently bought a CPP500 box. I haven't installed it or new motor mounts yet. I'm thinking of making/modifying the new side mounts to offset the engine approx 1/4" to provide clearance. Any reason not to? I can't think of any.
Steve Saving Nomad #58


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25766

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
01-08-12 01:58 PM - Post#2177092    
    In response to 5nomad5

Probably an excellent idea. It won't cause any u-joint problems.

 
5Larry7 
"11th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1753
5Larry7
Loc: Dallas, TX
Reg: 05-17-04
01-09-12 01:31 AM - Post#2177284    
    In response to 5nomad5

FWIW. If you have headers, you might want to check the clearance on the idler arm with the headers. On my car with Patriot headers, it is pretty close on both sides of the engine. If I had moved the engine over like you suggest, I think that the idler arm would touch the headers. My Patriots headers do clear the 500 box, but it is close, (engine in the stock location).
'57 210, Blown 327 cid, Holley HP TBI, 700R4, A/C
'51 Studebaker Starlite coupe, 350, TH400, GV OD.
'96 Replica of a 1950's Teardrop Trailer.


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9479
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
01-09-12 06:35 AM - Post#2177305    
    In response to Fishermark

Is anyone here using 2" ram's horns with a 500 box? And are the horns and the dumps a bit smaller? 327 Corvettes used them for several years AFTER using the 2.5" version for a couple years, so I think they would work fine on a mild performance engine up to a 327, and maybe a 350.

I once had a mild 383 in my pickup and frankly couldn't tell the difference between 2" angle-back ram's horns and 1-5/8" full-length headers, at least not in the 1500-4500 RPM range. That's not to say there wasn't a difference, it just wasn't anything I felt via seat of the pants.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



Edited by MikeB on 01-09-12 06:38 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-09-12 09:34 AM - Post#2177349    
    In response to MikeB

I had 2" Ram's Horns before these 2.5" ones I am using now. No clearance issues as they are smaller.
1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
56 thing 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 92
56 thing
Reg: 03-20-05
01-09-12 08:54 PM - Post#2177576    
    In response to Fishermark

On my car, the distance from the head measured straight across to the steering box is 2 7/8” that being said, every car will probably be a little different.
56 BEl AIR 2 DOOR SEDAN
1999 Chevy Silverado 1500
2003 GMC Sierra 2500



 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-11-12 03:11 PM - Post#2178230    
    In response to 56 thing

Well, I ordered the new CPP 500 box today... will let everyone know how it fits!
1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-25-12 07:10 AM - Post#2183231    
    In response to Fishermark

Finally got the opportunity to work on the car - finished the installation late yesterday and drove around briefly. Will do a more extended test today.

But for future reference, it does in fact fit, and has a little more clearance than the 605 box. Here's a side by side comparison of the two. (The 500 box comes with an aluminum dress up cover which I haven't installed yet, and not sure I will).

Before:


After:
1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
Jalapeno 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 8866
Jalapeno
Loc: The Republic of Texas
Reg: 04-30-00
01-25-12 10:17 PM - Post#2183526    
    In response to Fishermark

What differences if any did you notice going from the 605 to the 500?
Jalapeno


 
Fishermark 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1207
Fishermark
Loc: Pt Charlotte, Florida
Reg: 01-04-01
01-26-12 09:13 AM - Post#2183620    
    In response to Jalapeno

Among the differences:

1. No leaking.

2. It takes a little more effort to turn. That's not necessarily a bad thing however. The other steering was almost TOO easy to turn.

3. There is no play at all in the steering. That is probably more due to some wear in the old rag joint - than the fault of the 605 box. I installed a new rubber "bushing" in the rag joint when I put the new box on.

I haven't taken it out on the interstate yet and run up to the 70 - 80 range. But I like the way it feels so far. I've had it up to around 55 - 60 and there is no wandering - I have a much better feel of the road. It's hard to describe, but it simply feels like I have a bit more control of the vehicle at speed than I did before.
1956 Chevy Bel Air 2 dr sedan
Pics of my car


 
1956chevy 
"2nd Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 293
1956chevy
Loc: Orlando, FL .
Reg: 05-11-01
03-29-12 11:38 AM - Post#2208844    
    In response to Fishermark

Fishermark,

I have installed a CPP500 box in place of an old 605 box on my 56. What size was your pinion nut that came with the CPP500 box? Mine is slightly larger than the nut on my old 605 box. I posted a question on the CPP forum, but got no response.

Added: I just called CPP. I never expected the pinion nut to be metric! It is a M22x1.5 (22mm x 1.5mm thread).
Keith Marang
Webmaster
Central Oklahoma Classic Chevy Club
www.55-57chevys.com


Edited by 1956chevy on 03-29-12 11:57 AM. Reason for edit: Additional information added.

 
Jalapeno 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 8866
Jalapeno
Loc: The Republic of Texas
Reg: 04-30-00
03-29-12 02:51 PM - Post#2208908    
    In response to 1956chevy

Are you talking about the large nut that holds the pitman arm onto the sector shaft? Not surprising that it's metric, the gear in manufactured overseas.
Jalapeno


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25766

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
03-29-12 03:59 PM - Post#2208941    
    In response to Jalapeno

The 600 gear that it's copied from is also metric.

 
Tony 
Founder & Grand PoohBah
Posts: 15917
Tony
Loc: Orange County CA.
Reg: 03-15-99
03-29-12 05:25 PM - Post#2208969    
    In response to 1956chevy

I posted a question on the CPP forum, but got no response.

Aaron the CPP rep is out of the office. Perhaps heading down to GoodGuys in Del Mar this weekend.
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