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Username Post: Starter motor shimming on 400 small block        (Topic#241992)
ImpalaSS62 
Contributor
Posts: 150
ImpalaSS62
Loc: England
Reg: 10-18-08
05-14-10 09:54 AM - Post#1914843    

Any tips I know the 1/8" gap, did this but the starter motor kicks out, engages the flywheel then starts clicking, and it won't disengage until I loosen the motor again

It's not slipping off the flywheel or chewing teeth

Sounds like it just can't crank the flywheel round?

I've tried spacing it with no shims, and lots of extra shims (washers etc) but no joy?

It's a proform replacement starter for the 400


Is this a shimming problem? I've had the starter tested and all is good
'Bagged '62 Impala SS


 
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Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3751
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
05-14-10 10:33 AM - Post#1914858    
    In response to ImpalaSS62

1/8" meshing gap is WAAAAY too much. 0.035" is more like it.
I'd guess you are wedging the Bendix gear. You might have destroyed the flexplate teeth and the Bendix gear teeth. You might also have cracked the starter gable, thus wedging the starter axle when the Bendix gear is wedged.

I have done similar things myself , that's why I'm getting so detailed with so little information
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
ImpalaSS62 
Contributor
Posts: 150
ImpalaSS62
Loc: England
Reg: 10-18-08
05-14-10 11:01 AM - Post#1914872    
    In response to Impala65SS

Well the 1/8" gap isn't between the teeth when it's engaged! it's between the edge of the flywheel tooth and the smooth part of the starter before the teeth kick out and engage.

the actual gap between the teeth when engaged is the same as a paper clip (I should've explained that better )

From under the car with a torch the flywheel teeth are fine and not chewed, they are a little chewed further round where a previous owner obviously had some issues, and the teeth on the starter are good too

Could there be issues with the wiring further up?

I just can't get it to crank the flywheel or chew it up, or miss with any type of spacers and its given me a bloody headache!
'Bagged '62 Impala SS


 
RaysnCayne 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1032
RaysnCayne
Age: 40
Loc: Richmond, VA
Reg: 07-29-03
05-14-10 11:37 AM - Post#1914887    
    In response to ImpalaSS62

I just installed a mini starter (from ebay) on my 400 last year.

My stock starter had no shims. So when I installed my new one, I didn't use any. It seemed to keep "running" after I got the engine started. So I put one shim in and it worked great. My flywheel is the original one to the 400, as such it doesn't have perfect teeth.

So my suggestion (if everything else seems to check out fine) would be to try one shim and see what happens.
'68 Biscayne
406/TH350/3.42-12 bolt
13.17 at 104mph
The Cayne


 
ImpalaSS62 
Contributor
Posts: 150
ImpalaSS62
Loc: England
Reg: 10-18-08
05-14-10 01:09 PM - Post#1914914    
    In response to RaysnCayne

  • RaysnCayne Said:

My stock starter had no shims.

So my suggestion (if everything else seems to check out fine) would be to try one shim and see what happens.



Thanks for the info, my original starter had 1 shim in there, I've tried no shims,1 shim and 2 shims and 2 shims plus some washers on this mini starter...

did you get good bolts with the mini starter? these seem to be the right length but are not knurled... so I bought some stock starter bolts that are knurled as I know they need to be to get it in the right position too, but they're far too long when used on a mini starter (well the engine side is, the other needed spacer washers)

I've tried combinations of these different bolts and shims but still nothing

Man I wish I could just bolt it on with 1 shim and be good to go... never had this much trouble getting a starter to fit and work on any other car!
'Bagged '62 Impala SS


 
turbo38s10 
"4th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 806
turbo38s10
Loc: Agawam,MA
Reg: 09-17-09
05-14-10 02:16 PM - Post#1914943    
    In response to ImpalaSS62

I think there is 2 different pitch drive gears for the starter. They are the same number but a different pitch and that may cause the gear to stick.

 
Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3751
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
05-14-10 02:35 PM - Post#1914950    
    In response to ImpalaSS62

  • ImpalaSS62 Said:
the starter motor kicks out, engages the flywheel then starts clicking, and it won't disengage until I loosen the motor again



Glad the 1/8 wasn't the meshing! Still - have you measured the meshing all round the flywheel? The sticking (not disengaging) is why I still feel it's not right. Are you useing the front starter bracket? I had a case where it was out of line because of crooked starter bolts. The front bracket was missing and would have fixed the problem (I did build one).

The clicking makes me think of poor power to the starter. Check the plus-cable and check the starter terminal - often the M8 Cu-thread is stripped and the connection is bad.

The solenoid might be bad, if the starter isn't getting enough current when the bendix is slung out.

Are you sure the bendix is slung out all the way?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
ImpalaSS62 
Contributor
Posts: 150
ImpalaSS62
Loc: England
Reg: 10-18-08
05-15-10 02:40 AM - Post#1915159    
    In response to Impala65SS

  • Impala65SS Said:

Glad the 1/8 wasn't the meshing! Still - have you measured the meshing all round the flywheel? The sticking (not disengaging) is why I still feel it's not right. Are you useing the front starter bracket? I had a case where it was out of line because of crooked starter bolts. The front bracket was missing and would have fixed the problem (I did build one).

The clicking makes me think of poor power to the starter. Check the plus-cable and check the starter terminal - often the M8 Cu-thread is stripped and the connection is bad.

The solenoid might be bad, if the starter isn't getting enough current when the bendix is slung out.

Are you sure the bendix is slung out all the way?



I'm pretty sure it is, yeah... I can pull out the bendix with a clip when its bolted on. The solenoid should be fine as I had the starter tested at a specialist store.

I'll test the wiring then and perhaps put some jump leads on my battery for some extra oomph to see if that helps...

Otherwise it's back to getting a rebuilt stock starter which has been a pain in the butt (I got a faulty one that burnt out the solenoid, the recovery guys said theres nothing on the car that could cause the solenoid to jam and catch fire, so must've been the solenoid... got the company I bought it from to fix it, but it still seems dodgy)
'Bagged '62 Impala SS


 
sb9938 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6

Reg: 10-02-09
05-17-10 05:17 AM - Post#1916095    
    In response to ImpalaSS62

Is one of your starter bolt hole slightly cracked. I had one do this and it was due to a hairline crack, barely seeable until really checking.? Just a thought.

 
ImpalaSS62 
Contributor
Posts: 150
ImpalaSS62
Loc: England
Reg: 10-18-08
05-17-10 05:19 AM - Post#1916096    
    In response to sb9938

  • sb9938 Said:
Is one of your starter bolt hole slightly cracked. I had one do this and it was due to a hairline crack, barely seeable until really checking.? Just a thought.



What was your solution to the crack?
'Bagged '62 Impala SS


 
sb9938 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6

Reg: 10-02-09
05-17-10 05:21 AM - Post#1916099    
    In response to sb9938

I also had the same problem with a mini starter due to low voltage. It was on my Chevy plow truck with dual batteries, but both the batteries ended up being junk eventhough they were only 3 months old. These starters seem to be unforgiving in a lower than required voltage.

 
sb9938 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6

Reg: 10-02-09
05-17-10 05:22 AM - Post#1916100    
    In response to ImpalaSS62

Cast iron welding rods and a good welding friend....!!

 
sb9938 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6

Reg: 10-02-09
05-17-10 05:24 AM - Post#1916101    
    In response to sb9938

Did you see my post for alignment help? I'm still looking for my 62s problem.

 
ImpalaSS62 
Contributor
Posts: 150
ImpalaSS62
Loc: England
Reg: 10-18-08
05-18-10 11:48 AM - Post#1916842    
    In response to sb9938

Update: Rebuilt starter works a charm (fingers crossed)

Mini Starter not worth the box it came in... I could not for the life of me get it shimmed properly, tried everything

Moral of the story: Don't waste your money on "new" electrical bits, stick with the stuff that was made for it

Thanks for all your help guys!
'Bagged '62 Impala SS


 
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