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Username Post: Wideband O2 tuning on carb        (Topic#237912)
John Savannah 
Member
Posts: 114

Loc: Savannah, GA
Reg: 04-06-04
03-16-10 03:39 PM - Post#1881177    

Greets all,

I was considering a dual O2 sensor package to fine tune my carb setup and was wanting some feedback of people who have tuned this way. Wondering how much of a better tune one can get with a sensor setup over traditional methods. Power? Fuel milage? Ect.

Thanks, J

 
HAL_396 
Member
Posts: 2911
HAL_396
Loc: Austin, TX
Reg: 11-16-06
03-16-10 03:55 PM - Post#1881189    
    In response to John Savannah

I put a single wide-band o2 sensor on my carb'd engine. Unfortunately, I'm still waiting for the weather to change so I can take it out and tune it. What ever you decided, you'll need the wide band sensors.
1955 Chevy Custom
1966 Biscayne
1966 Caprice Drag Car Inwork
1966 Caprice parts car
2004 Silverado
2007 Impala LS
2009 G5


Edited by HAL_396 on 03-16-10 03:56 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
motorman 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5170

Loc: south western pa.
Reg: 01-25-00
03-16-10 06:10 PM - Post#1881263    
    In response to HAL_396

using one on a carbed engine on the road is tough because you will have trouble keeping a steady load on the engine unless you use a dyno.you can do wide open throttle if you have enough room to run it out and hold it
retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way. 2008 corvette sold and waiting on a C-7.


Edited by motorman on 03-16-10 06:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
bigblock1957 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 69
bigblock1957
Loc: Australia Queensland
Reg: 11-21-06
03-17-10 01:53 AM - Post#1881435    
    In response to John Savannah

I use the FAST dual sensor meter with a RPM module http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-170402/ so you can reference the AF ratio with the RPM you can replay on the meter or on your PC in real time or slow play. I also have Percy's ajustajet between the fuel bowl and metering block http://www.summitracing.com/parts/PHP-15001/ as this allows quick ajustment on the side of the road or at the track.
57 150 2 Door Sedan 505 BBC Turbo 400.


 
John Savannah 
Member
Posts: 114

Loc: Savannah, GA
Reg: 04-06-04
03-17-10 03:54 PM - Post#1881774    
    In response to bigblock1957

bigblock how much has it helped you tune over older methods?

 
bigblock1957 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 69
bigblock1957
Loc: Australia Queensland
Reg: 11-21-06
03-18-10 02:30 AM - Post#1882052    
    In response to John Savannah

I find it eliminates a lot of guesswork and the "I think it sounds better and it seems to be going better" when you have changed something. Also with the RPM module you can check your fuel curve from a launch to be sure the powervalve is providing fuel at the right time. Using the adjustable jets save lots of time and is quick to fine tune as well you can change from open pipes to street cruising in 30 seconds. Hope this helps.
Ian
It also shows how far off tune I have been at times and saves pulling the plugs as often as this is not that easy with the pipes I have to use without having a custom set made.
57 150 2 Door Sedan 505 BBC Turbo 400.


Edited by bigblock1957 on 03-18-10 02:35 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
John Savannah 
Member
Posts: 114

Loc: Savannah, GA
Reg: 04-06-04
03-18-10 09:06 PM - Post#1882595    
    In response to bigblock1957

Hi,

Thanks for the info. I thought there'd be more responses but I guess it's still rare on carbed setups..

Thanks, J

 
A. G. Olphart 
Member
Posts: 23

Loc: Chico Ca.
Reg: 04-26-05
03-18-10 09:51 PM - Post#1882613    
    In response to John Savannah

I've no hands on experience, but in light of the light board traffic, offer this thought: If your engine is built well (same deck heights etc.), running on all cylinders and nothing is leaking, why would a sensor in each bank be an advantage? One in each cylinder, yes, but that's spendy.

Carb tuning can be very precisely done with with the aid of WB02. You might enjoy a look at this:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthre...
_______________
___________

A. G.


 
motorman 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5170

Loc: south western pa.
Reg: 01-25-00
03-19-10 08:48 AM - Post#1882786    
    In response to A. G. Olphart

  • A. G. Olphart Said:
I've no hands on experience, but in light of the light board traffic, offer this thought: If your engine is built well (same deck heights etc.), running on all cylinders and nothing is leaking, why would a sensor in each bank be an advantage? One in each cylinder, yes, but that's spendy.

Carb tuning can be very precisely done with with the aid of WB02. You might enjoy a look at this:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/showthre...



with FI this is true but with a carb and intake manifold a lot of things have to be done to get equal fuel distribution in the engine. in NASCAR engines they even use distributors that alter the timing on different cylinders to make max power
retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way. 2008 corvette sold and waiting on a C-7.


 
C10 Sleeper 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3426
C10 Sleeper
Loc: Redding Ca
Reg: 03-17-09
03-19-10 09:20 AM - Post#1882795    
    In response to motorman

There is a website I came across a while back. I can't remember the name of it but do a Google search for Carb tuning the scientific way. It pretty much covers how to tune using a o2 sensor and a multimeter. It was pretty interesting. I can't remember all the details but it covered a lot of interesting info.
http://photobucket.com/C10Pictures


 
motorman 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5170

Loc: south western pa.
Reg: 01-25-00
03-19-10 01:00 PM - Post#1882898    
    In response to C10 Sleeper

  • C10 Sleeper Said:
There is a website I came across a while back. I can't remember the name of it but do a Google search for Carb tuning the scientific way. It pretty much covers how to tune using a o2 sensor and a multimeter. It was pretty interesting. I can't remember all the details but it covered a lot of interesting info.


is this it ?? http://www.bob2000.com/carb.htm
retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way. 2008 corvette sold and waiting on a C-7.


 
C10 Sleeper 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3426
C10 Sleeper
Loc: Redding Ca
Reg: 03-17-09
03-19-10 03:17 PM - Post#1882959    
    In response to motorman

Yes that is the one I was thinking about. After reading the page again I wish I had com sensor bungs in my headers so I could try out his method.
http://photobucket.com/C10Pictures


 
motorman 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5170

Loc: south western pa.
Reg: 01-25-00
03-19-10 04:39 PM - Post#1883005    
    In response to C10 Sleeper

  • C10 Sleeper Said:
Yes that is the one I was thinking about. After reading the page again I wish I had com sensor bungs in my headers so I could try out his method.


i used this setup at the track and all you need is a 3/16" hole in the header pipe. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISA PI.dll?Vi...
retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way. 2008 corvette sold and waiting on a C-7.


 
C10 Sleeper 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3426
C10 Sleeper
Loc: Redding Ca
Reg: 03-17-09
03-19-10 05:17 PM - Post#1883029    
    In response to motorman

If I still had a welder I would do it without thinking twice. Lazyness has taken over and time is thin. Maybe one of these days when I have time and everything else is caught up I will give it a shot.
http://photobucket.com/C10Pictures


 
jdk 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 353

Age: 64
Loc: columbus, ohio
Reg: 02-15-10
03-19-10 05:25 PM - Post#1883032    
    In response to C10 Sleeper

do those elec tuning stuff really do a lot better
job then a vacuum gauge does? curious jim

 
cloudmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 994
cloudmaster
Loc: Arrowsmith, IL
Reg: 01-30-02
03-19-10 06:55 PM - Post#1883094    
    In response to John Savannah

I've tuned my Chevelle this way, and I'm welding a bung into the header on my truck this weekend to do the same thing. There are a few things worth adding here:

It's not magic. You still need to read the plugs and generally understand how to tune the "old" way. This is just an extra tool which makes you more precise.

You only need one. With a dual-plane intake definitely, and really most other intakes, you've got a long road to mapping carb changes to changes between the right and left banks. Not that two isn't better, but you're looking at an incremental gain v/s a significant expense.

More data is good. Rather than two WB O2s, consider getting a TPS and something which will graph that with RPM, vacuum, and maybe spark advance. Knowing where the throttle blade(s) are at helps indicate which circuit you need to be adjusting.
'71 Malibu: 350/200-4R/3.73 Eaton posi
'75 Elky: 350HO/TH350/3.42 peg leg
'85 C20: EFI454/TH400/3.73 locker
'95 Caprice Wagon: LT1/4L60E/3.42 posi
'04 Grand Marquis: 2V4.6/3" pipes/SCT flash


 
HAL_396 
Member
Posts: 2911
HAL_396
Loc: Austin, TX
Reg: 11-16-06
03-20-10 06:35 AM - Post#1883305    
    In response to jdk

  • jdk Said:
do those elec tuning stuff really do a lot better
job then a vacuum gauge does? curious jim



I'm thinking between the two of them one ought to have a very efficiant carb!
1955 Chevy Custom
1966 Biscayne
1966 Caprice Drag Car Inwork
1966 Caprice parts car
2004 Silverado
2007 Impala LS
2009 G5


 
John Savannah 
Member
Posts: 114

Loc: Savannah, GA
Reg: 04-06-04
03-20-10 07:28 AM - Post#1883328    
    In response to cloudmaster

I'm looking at zeitronix.com....2 O2's (AFR/lamda), MAP (vac/boost), intake air temp, coolant temp, RMP, TPS, EGT, plus two user inputs (0 - 5V)...all viewable in real time on a pc or lcd and all loggable

too bad my holley 750 doesn't have tps

J

 
HAL_396 
Member
Posts: 2911
HAL_396
Loc: Austin, TX
Reg: 11-16-06
03-20-10 07:52 AM - Post#1883333    
    In response to John Savannah

  • John Savannah Said:

too bad my holley 750 doesn't have tps
J


I put a WOT switch on my Holley 750. I have an autometer gauge like this:
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=au tometer...
1955 Chevy Custom
1966 Biscayne
1966 Caprice Drag Car Inwork
1966 Caprice parts car
2004 Silverado
2007 Impala LS
2009 G5


 
cloudmaster 
Senior Member
Posts: 994
cloudmaster
Loc: Arrowsmith, IL
Reg: 01-30-02
03-20-10 11:24 AM - Post#1883450    
    In response to John Savannah

If it's electric choke, Holley has this semi-new thing:

http://www.holley.com/HolleyNews/article.asp?ID=19...
http://www.holley.com/534-202.asp

I'm not sure why this wouldn't work with the manual choke, though. It probably just doesn't work with the manifold heat riser kind.
'71 Malibu: 350/200-4R/3.73 Eaton posi
'75 Elky: 350HO/TH350/3.42 peg leg
'85 C20: EFI454/TH400/3.73 locker
'95 Caprice Wagon: LT1/4L60E/3.42 posi
'04 Grand Marquis: 2V4.6/3" pipes/SCT flash


 
John Savannah 
Member
Posts: 114

Loc: Savannah, GA
Reg: 04-06-04
03-20-10 11:29 AM - Post#1883454    
    In response to cloudmaster

How about this?

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.p...



 
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