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Username Post: K5 3/4 ton axle swap tips?        (Topic#233938)
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-20-10 02:42 PM - Post#1846011    

the welded diff on the 85 k5 chassis did not last long. looks like they did it in the housing with the axles still in the spiders because the right axle snapped right at the splines, and is blued from heat.



i am picking up 3/4 ton axles tonight from a 79 K20. 8 lug d44 front and 14 bolt full floater rear.

is the swap as straightforward as it looks? i understand the 1/2 and 3/4 tons used the same front axle except the spindles and hubs so that should be a simple deal.

the rear - does the 14 bolt use a larger u-joint than the 10 bolt? i'd assume so, and that i will need a conversion universal to go from one to the other. if that is the case, could someone enlighten me as to the series of each so i can procure the proper joint?

the seller claims the rear is rebuilt, and that the front works but there is slight play in the pinion shaft. i gather i will rebuild it in the spring he also said it has almost new warn maual locking hubs on it - are they better than the factory automatic ones?

they are 3.73 and my current are 3.08 so i can't just toss in the rear and forget about the front until i rebuild it. i guess i could rebuild the original with new 3.73 gears while i put the other one to use and then just swap the 8 lug parts like the article i found on coloradok5. not paying $25 a year to ask questions on their forum though.

he only wants $200 for the pair which is think is extremely fair since i usually see them for 300 each for the rears and the front 8 lug parts are expensive.

 
Custom_Deluxe_20 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1155
Custom_Deluxe_20
Loc: Stevens PA USA
Reg: 04-05-02
01-20-10 02:51 PM - Post#1846012    
    In response to patgizz

If you have both u joints take the to NAPA , they have the crossover joints
92 SWB 4X 305 5peed Powetrax out back Posi-lock ft 72 LWB fleet, 454,400 t,12 bolt w/3.73 and locker #3 Roll on forever


 
I Fish 
Contributor
Posts: 135
I Fish
Loc: NJ & MD
Reg: 10-29-09
01-20-10 02:52 PM - Post#1846014    
    In response to patgizz

i think the manual hubs are much more reliable. downside is you lose the luxury of shift on the fly, and you have to get out of the truck in bad weather, but i feel better knowing they are locked when they should be

 
steve v 
Senior Member
Posts: 987
steve v
Loc: n. cal
Reg: 05-08-04
01-20-10 02:56 PM - Post#1846015    
    In response to patgizz

I would bet that the front 3/4 ton axle is a corporate 10 bolt and not a dana 44. But either way, get them for that price. Yes, the 14 bolt uses a bigger u-joint. New or rebuilt driveshaft is in order. Manual hubs are way better than the automatic ones. At least you will truly know whether you are locked or not. 3.73 are a better ratio for sure. Why rebuild the original if you already want to rebuild the 3/4 ton one? Sounds like you have some fun wrenching on your ride soon. Do it right the first time even if it takes more time and money. 3/4 ton blazer are the sheet!

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-20-10 08:50 PM - Post#1846262    
    In response to steve v

brought the axles home tonight, they were very much as described. the guy said he had his 79 k20 torn apart at his buddy's then the guy got divorced so he lost the shop he was working in and sold everything but the axles. he had a set of 4.10 axles too but said he was hanging onto them.

these will go in really nice, shouldnt take too long.

 
75gmck25 
Contributor
Posts: 345

Loc: Alexandria, VA
Reg: 12-25-07
01-21-10 05:11 AM - Post#1846335    
    In response to patgizz

Take a good look at the brakes on the 14 bolt before you get it on the truck. Those big drums are much harder to remove and replace linings or wheel cylinders, since you have to pull the axle first. Its also probably a Gov-loc, so you might want to pull the cover and see what kind of "rebuild" they did.

There are also several disc brake conversion kits and articles for the 14 bolt. The only complicated part seems to adjusting the proportioning valve to compensate for the discs, and getting the emergency brake working correctly. However, by the time you buy all the parts its not a real cheap conversion.

Bruce

 
Vaughn 
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 15378

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
01-21-10 01:05 PM - Post#1846550    
    In response to 75gmck25

They will bolt in. Spring pad distance is the same. Your brake lines should fit, if you got them with the new axles.

U-joints will be the only obstacle. There are only a few different sizes of u joints - for example, 1310, 1350, 1410, etc. Your stock u-joints will probably be 1310 or 1350. Take in your old joints with you, and measure the size of the yoke on the front and rear - just measure the distance across the cross shaft. Don't remove the yoke from either the front or rear, you don't want to screw up the crush sleeves putting them back on. If you absolutely have to remove a yoke, count the threads showing on the pinion nut and mark the pinion nut to the pinion shaft so you can get it back in place exactly.

Don't assume the front needs to be rebuilt, some slop is necessary. When the front axle heats up, the slop will disappear.

 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25559
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
01-21-10 02:41 PM - Post#1846599    
    In response to Vaughn

  • Vaughn Said:
Don't remove the yoke from either the front or rear, you don't want to screw up the crush sleeves putting them back on.


"Quoted for truth."

I wish I could get all these guys doing the 14 bolt semifloater swap into their 10 bolt trucks to understand that. It's as easy as getting the conversion U-joint. None of them seem to understand or believe there is a crush sleeve hiding behind that pinion nut and it's not as simple as just cranking the nut back down.

I've even gone so far as to post part breakdown diagrams showing the component...but they disregard it because GM calls it a "bearing spacer" not a crush sleeve. I've posted the assembly directions from the GM manual that say to use a new spacer. Do you think they listen?

They later wonder why their pinion seal leaks so badly and a new seal doesn't fix it.

http://www.someotherplace.com/info/pinionset1.jpg
http://www.someotherplace.com/info/pinionset2.jpg

Richard
94 C2500LD / 94 C1500 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-21-10 06:34 PM - Post#1846737    
    In response to someotherguy

yeah i think someone boned up the crush sleeve on the chevelle. i thought the pinion seal was leaking, when i went to take it apart the nut was hand tight and had been backing off. little more driving would have dropped the driveshaft.

i'm not touching the yokes. i'd rather buy a conversion joint and be done with it instead of screwing around with stuff that does not need screwing with.

i brought the axles home, they look good except he torched the bolt on steering arm off the drivers spindle, so i need to swap that over and none of the bolts look like they will want to come out easily. going to borrow the huge impact from my uncle to do the job. looks all straightforward, i'll have to swap my brake lines over on the rear axle and i will probably put my calipers on the new front so i do not open the front of the brake system.

i am soaking all the fasteners with penetrant and i'll probably tackle it saturday.

 
MikeJ 
Moderator
Posts: 4173
MikeJ
Loc: Ashland, Ky
Reg: 08-21-02
01-22-10 12:53 PM - Post#1847206    
    In response to patgizz

Always a project right Pat? Great pic too. I've many C clip GMs sitting on the side of the highway looking just like that.
Mike



 
Vaughn 
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 15378

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
01-22-10 03:17 PM - Post#1847292    
    In response to MikeJ

Depending on what front axle you have, there are little cone washers that fit down into the arm to "wedge" the arm into place on the top of the knuckle. You have to pull these cone washers out before you even think of trying to remove the arm.

How stupid do you have to be to cut the arm off with a torch?

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-22-10 06:58 PM - Post#1847442    
    In response to Vaughn

dunno, i guess a tie rod fork is too hard to find.

thought i was ready to plow last week, now i have to get it fixed before another big snow comes. sick of shoveling when i have a plow sitting here.

 
blg4351 34
Forum Newbie
Posts: 87
blg4351
Age: 34
Loc: FT. Eustis, Va
Reg: 04-19-09
01-23-10 11:02 AM - Post#1847808    
    In response to patgizz

Look at CK5 for your disk brake conversion they have a whole tech section in there for a disk swap. The proportioning valve is a big issue for the rear disks to work properly.
85 K5 4x4, crate 350 headers and holley 600 4 barrel. 700R4 np 208 transfer.


 
gchemist 
Senior Chevytalk Moderator
Posts: 21848
gchemist
Age: 44
Loc: Austin, TX 78748
Reg: 05-09-00
01-23-10 05:34 PM - Post#1848033    
    In response to blg4351

14 bolt disc conversion info: http://www.shakerbuilt.com/14boltSTEPS.html
'83 Silverardo XST - ZZ4 powered
'96 GMC Jimmy LS Ret. @236651 miles


 
Vaughn 
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 15378

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
01-24-10 02:07 PM - Post#1848557    
    In response to gchemist

http://www.wfoconcepts.com/pr/Chevy-14-Bolt-Disc -B...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/14b_d isc_...

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-24-10 07:36 PM - Post#1848830    
    In response to Vaughn

i dont want rear discs. just want to plow. its supposed to snow late this week, have to get done. just picked up the big impact today and it was raining all day so i did all of nothing.

going to start on it tomorrow after work.

 
MikeJ 
Moderator
Posts: 4173
MikeJ
Loc: Ashland, Ky
Reg: 08-21-02
01-24-10 07:40 PM - Post#1848839    
    In response to patgizz

Need some help Pat?
Mike



 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-25-10 07:46 AM - Post#1849069    
    In response to MikeJ

always need help

sitting in the ER right now, my wife woke up with severe abdominal pain that had been nagging the last few days. she's in getting x rays right now.

1954 Belair
1972 Chevelle
1990 C1500
1991 Corvette
1995 Impala SS
2005 Avalanche Z71 LT


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25559
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
01-25-10 07:49 AM - Post#1849072    
    In response to patgizz

Brother if I had a spare break I'd send it to you. Hoping it's nothing serious.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 94 C1500 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-25-10 08:25 PM - Post#1849625    
    In response to someotherguy

x rays, catheters, ultrasounds, poking and prodding, blood drawing, and cat scan later she has a cyst on an ovary. we were there for over 7 hours. she'll be fine.

i got to work on the truck a little when we got home. the BIG impact is even struggling with the u bolts. i'm going to cut them all and just buy new from summit since i need to go there to get the 1310/1350 u joint anyway. i got lucky and dug out the front driveshaft from the old 79 suburban i had for parts years ago and it has new joints on it so i dont need to buy new universals for the worn ones on the front shaft.

i think i'm going to get the fork for the air hammer to try and remove the steering arm with the cone washers.

hopefully i can plug away at it after work this week and find time to hit the pull a part to grab some 16" 8 lug wheels

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-27-10 08:48 PM - Post#1851128    
    In response to patgizz

rear axle is out. took about 20 minutes.

went to summit and bought all new u bolts front and rear and the 1310/1350 precision USA made u joint and 32 new lugnuts.

tomorrow morning i am running to pull a part for 8 lug wheels. then i get to go to work late

anybody know how much the driveshaft needs shortened?

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
01-28-10 05:14 PM - Post#1851605    
    In response to patgizz

nevermind that last question. i measured from axle center to u joint saddle and was within 1/2" on the 10 bolt vs the 14 bolt.

i braved the 15 degree blizzardy conditions to go to pull a part after work and was rewarded with a very clean set of 16" wheels off an early 90's 1 ton van that have almost new firestone transforce tires in excellent condition for $68 out the door.

i have the 14 bolt up under the rear with the jack stands, need to get new top plates for the u bolts or slot the holes in the originals.


Edited by patgizz on 01-28-10 05:39 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
02-01-10 06:27 PM - Post#1854466    
    In response to patgizz

well,

the rear axle is in.

however i went to install the 1310-1350 conversion joint that was called for on the ck5 swap page as well as every other resource i found, and my driveshaft and old rear axle have 1330 yokes. not sure what happened there but i need to make another trip out to summit racing tomorrow after work, kill 3 hours in the process, and trade joints. last time i believe anything i read from a "credible source" on the internets.

the rear axle swap itself, without the u joint debacle, has taken about 55 minutes total so far. i had the new one in in under 20 including ovalling the holes in the old spring plates to accommodate the wider u bolts for the larger axle tube. i'm using all new fasteners for ease of install including lugnuts. i bought new front u bolts as well and i will not bother trying to get the nuts off, i will just blast them off with the cutting wheel like i did the rears.

 
Vaughn 
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 15378

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
02-01-10 07:49 PM - Post#1854531    
    In response to patgizz

Napa normally carries the conversion u-joints, but you usually need to talk with the older parts guys to get them, the younger ones normally don't know anything about them. It would be a lot easier than going 3 hours out of your way to get to summit, if you have a local Napa store.

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
02-01-10 09:41 PM - Post#1854608    
    In response to Vaughn

in the end i found out i had S44 yokes and needed to go from that to 1350. all is good, joint is installed on the driveshaft. all is not good with the rear axle yoke, have messed up threads on one of the strap bolt holes, but i will hopefully chase them and they will be repaired. the guy the axles came from must have cross threaded the bolt when he was putting the straps back on and just cranked the crap out of it, it was in 1/4" and bound so tight i needed to heat up the yoke to get the bolt out.

got my new brake lines on, just need to bleed the rear and fix the bolt hole and i should be good to go on the rear and move to the front.

 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
02-04-10 03:54 PM - Post#1856476    
    In response to patgizz

is precision 371 the proper joint for the ends of the front axle out at the wheels? the new front axle "slop" the kid told me was in the gears is in a bad joint.

rear is done.

 
Rollinkaos 
Contributor
Posts: 199
Rollinkaos
Loc: SO. Kali
Reg: 03-13-09
02-05-10 09:40 PM - Post#1857281    
    In response to patgizz

Movng along good. Hope to be doing this to my K5 in the next couple of months.
63 Fleetside 350 / 4 speed


 
patgizz 
Senior Moderator Member
Posts: 8293
patgizz
Loc: Cleveland, OH
Reg: 01-30-00
02-06-10 09:51 AM - Post#1857404    
    In response to Rollinkaos

i plowed my driveway today.

the rear is a limited slip and works awesome. that makes me a very happy camper, i figured i was getting an open rear and would need to swap carriers down the road. the kid told me he had the rear rebuilt not long before he pulled the truck apart, maybe i am lucky and he had an aftermarket posi installed or maybe it has a good factory one, either way i am happy.

i still have the 3.08 in front but there was so much snow i needed the plow, and the rears just slipped on the snow to make up for the different ratios. i hope before the next big snow i can swap the front axle, but will change out the bad universals while it is out so i can put it in the garage and turn the heat on. i'm swapping axles outside because the garage has my astro v8 project and my 40 pickup in it.

next up is keeping an eye on the pull a part for a 4x4 1 ton to come in so i can pull the dana 60 and springs, thinking about converting my 90 c3500 dually to 4x4 with a solid front axle and divorced np205(if i can find one). sick of getting stuck with that truck. i was stuck yesterday in the snow/mud for 20 minutes with the work trailer hooked up.

Edited by patgizz on 02-06-10 12:11 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Vaughn 
"12th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 15378

Loc: Colorado Springs, CO
Reg: 08-08-04
02-06-10 08:35 PM - Post#1857728    
    In response to patgizz

As long as you don't drive axles with different ratios on pavement, you are OK to run them. On pavement they will bind up, but on snow or dirt it is generally OK.

 
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