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Username Post: Vortec or Edelbrock        (Topic#231823)
shakey 
Contributor
Posts: 418

Loc: central ga
Reg: 11-08-00
12-17-09 08:24 PM - Post#1825983    

Hello All & Merry Christmas. My question is I have a set of stock 060 vortec & a set of stock edelbrock performer 6085 alum heads 202 - 160 60cc. Which would be a better setup for a 1987 unmolested chevy pick-up, TBI / 700R4 trans / 273 gears & a stock converter(which I want to keep) & dual gas tanks. Useage would be ( sometimes ) back & forth to work ( 50 miles both ways) grocery getter & weekend cruiseing ) performance range from idle to 4500 - 5000. I realize that I will need more than just heads, so I do need advice on the best combo of matching parts. (gaskets, intake,throttle body, cam shaft, etc )
Thanks to All
shakey

 
octanejunkie 
Contributor
Posts: 466
octanejunkie
Loc: Los Angeles area
Reg: 11-12-09
12-18-09 08:34 AM - Post#1826140    
    In response to shakey

I know of an 062 vortec head and a 906 vortec head (I am running 906s) but never heard of an 060... There is a good description of the vortec head family at http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=565...

The Edelbrock 60859 head is similar to the vortec but supports up to .575" lift, has larger valves but slightly smaller runners and the same 60cc chamber IIRC. Either head is probably a good choice for about a 50HP bolt-on gain alone, the difference between aluminum vs. cast iron will also make a difference in the total package and performance. The performer series of products is focused towards the idle-5500 RMP range, the vortecs fit nicely there too, but you can get more out of either depending on what cam you run and the rest of your combo (compression ratio, gears, trans, etc.)

As for the rest of your question, there are literally thousands of combos out there, some work better than others. Best is to look at proven combos, check the dyno'd combos at http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html for idea - otherwise be advised you will get hundreds of opinions - IMO, documented is the way to go unless you want to be on the bleeding edge pioneering your own way

Just my $0.02, good luck
'59 Chevy 3100 Stepside
0.040-over 350, mild (214/224 @ .050) 112 LC cam,
vortec heads, air-gap, 600cfm carter, 2-1/2" rams horns,
built 700R4 w 2200rpm stall, 3.42 posi rear on top of 31.5" BFGs


 
shakey 
Contributor
Posts: 418

Loc: central ga
Reg: 11-08-00
12-18-09 08:06 PM - Post#1826545    
    In response to octanejunkie

Thanks octanejunkie, the heads are 062,s. I want to keep the trans and rear gears the same. I,m goint to call CFM about their ported throttle body and what intake they recommend, maybe think about the 670 holley also. I may as well use the edelbrock heads because their aluminum. What I want to do is match from the top down. Another question, was the 87 pickup 5.7 LO block drilled and tapped for the roller cams? I thought I would ask before I pulled a cover an measured one of the pushrods.
shakey

 
scrambldcj8 
Senior Member
Posts: 1728

Loc: MA
Reg: 04-06-03
12-19-09 05:31 AM - Post#1826710    
    In response to shakey

The block will most likely need to be drilled and tapped for roller lifters....the bosses will be there, maybe just not drilled and tapped.

IMO, stay with the TBI swirlports heads. From (a lot) what I have read they offer more for that application regarding TQ output and fuel mileage than the Vortecs. The TBI heads will make equal hp until about 4000rpm then the Vortecs will produce better Hp. Considering you have 2.73's and a stock converter...you'll need ALL the TQ you can make to maintain drivability.

Do some reading over on ThirdGen.com. Alot of comparisons regarding these two heads.

 
octanejunkie 
Contributor
Posts: 466
octanejunkie
Loc: Los Angeles area
Reg: 11-12-09
12-19-09 10:14 AM - Post#1826836    
    In response to scrambldcj8

shakey is your truck running? Is your engine in need of a rebuild? With a 700R4 and it’s 3.06 first gear you will take off well with almost any rear gear ratio, and with a .70 overdrive ratio, even 4.11 gears will be manageable, question is what do you want the truck to be that it is not?

Sounds like scrambldcj8 is advising you to leave your truck as is, not sure that I understood that correctly...

While proper combo matching is critical for performance, reliability and driveability, the factory usually errs on the conservative and economic side; meaning lower compression ratios, lower gear ratios, etc. If you want to “wake up” your ride you will probably want to consider EVERYTHING from tire size and gearing to compression, cam, heads, etc – it is the “big picture” that makes the project a success across the board, not the 1 thing you bolt on to gain a few extra HP. Your first post sounded like you wanted to revisit the big picture but wanted to stick with the TBI / 700R4 trans / 273 gears & a stock converter – what size tires are you running?

Keep in mind, the more radical you go the less pump-gas friendly it will become.

For your truck I would consider upgrading the rear gear to 3.23-3.73 gears (your OD ratio and tire size will determine final gear ratio) and stepping up to a mild split profile cam with less than 300 duration and less than .480 lift on a 112-114 LC. Leave the stock heads as is and drive the truck, see if you like it. You can always swap heads but you will need a new intake, which you will have to pull to swap the cam anyway.

Best of luck
'59 Chevy 3100 Stepside
0.040-over 350, mild (214/224 @ .050) 112 LC cam,
vortec heads, air-gap, 600cfm carter, 2-1/2" rams horns,
built 700R4 w 2200rpm stall, 3.42 posi rear on top of 31.5" BFGs


 
shakey 
Contributor
Posts: 418

Loc: central ga
Reg: 11-08-00
12-19-09 03:51 PM - Post#1826984    
    In response to octanejunkie

octanejunkie yes the truck (87 silverado) owned for 12 yrs, is running and has not given any trouble at all. tire size is 255x75x15. I don't mind going to 3.23-3.73 posi. Trans and stock converter I'd like to keep, along with the throttle body (maybe upgrade to a CFM Technologies ported throttle body or the holley 670 CFM TB, use the edelbrock heads, different intake and decide on camshaft, maybe hydralic roller around 480 lift (exhaust determined later)

 
octanejunkie 
Contributor
Posts: 466
octanejunkie
Loc: Los Angeles area
Reg: 11-12-09
12-19-09 11:10 PM - Post#1827128    
    In response to shakey

Now you're talking! BTW what size rear end is on your truck, 10 bolt or 12 bolt? There may not be a 3.23 for your rear, like there was no 3.55 for mine

So your tire is essentially 30" which means 3.08 gears would put you at sub-1600 RPM at 65 mph, 3.42 gears are 1750 rpm at 65 and 3.73s run about 1900 rpm at 65 mph. I used the calculators at www.differentials.com... that's not cheating is it?

But you will probably want to upgrade your torque converter to about 1900-2100 stall speed, especially if you do the other mods you mention - no question about that - then the truck will be be strong, it will launch and will be fairly economical on the highway, overall just FUN! Just like my '59

For a TB replacement, I was turned on to www.retrotekspeed.com while looking for EFI alternatives to carbs. They have some nice TB/carb-like solutions for us with vortec, e-tec heads running aftermarket manifolds (not that their products are specific to vortec,) and since you are already plumbed with a send and return fuel line, even better!

Good luck and have fun! You might want to do a compression test just for giggles...
'59 Chevy 3100 Stepside
0.040-over 350, mild (214/224 @ .050) 112 LC cam,
vortec heads, air-gap, 600cfm carter, 2-1/2" rams horns,
built 700R4 w 2200rpm stall, 3.42 posi rear on top of 31.5" BFGs


 
scrambldcj8 
Senior Member
Posts: 1728

Loc: MA
Reg: 04-06-03
12-26-09 07:29 PM - Post#1830897    
    In response to octanejunkie

I still think the TBI heads for your application have great potential over Vortecs.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tbi/336750- tbi-t...

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tbi/283217- garag...

 
scrambldcj8 
Senior Member
Posts: 1728

Loc: MA
Reg: 04-06-03
12-28-09 05:57 AM - Post#1831580    
    In response to scrambldcj8

ist link above is bad:

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tbi/177465- perfe...

...and to qoute someone who has used the 193's in a truck (hope it's OK G20):

"I'm not running 6,000+ rpm and chances are most of this board is not. 5,000 rpm is a very reasonable rpm limit for a STREET driven vehicle. Come on we are not talking about making 7,000 rpm TBI 305s or 350s for that matter.

For power under 4,000-4,500 rpm the swirl ports are very hard to beat. I doubt the vortecs could lay down the low speed torque that these 193s can. It turned out to be a great combination for me. The engine is still pulling at the 5,000 rpm shift point that I adjusted my 700r4 for.

On a street engine how often are you going to turn it to 4,000+ anyways? I would rather have an engine that is capable of as much acceleration at 1/2 throttle and 3,000 rpm as WOT and 5,000. But then again that is just me."

 
shakey 
Contributor
Posts: 418

Loc: central ga
Reg: 11-08-00
01-06-10 05:35 PM - Post#1837430    
    In response to scrambldcj8

that was some very impressive reading on the 193's. In the earlier post I mentioned the edelbrocks and the vortec heads. I also have a set of the older style brodix 8's. If I decided to go old school (with the brodix) and still use the TBI setup, what would be the best intake to fit the heads and adapt to the TBI? This build could very easly turn into a 383. I'm installing an eaton LS 373 this weekend. All suggestions are welcomed
shakey
87 chevy 1/2 ton silverado 350, tbi, 700r4

 
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