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Username Post: LS6 454 Question        (Topic#231585)
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-14-09 09:47 AM - Post#1823801    

What makes an LS6 454 an LS6? Is it basically the heads, intake, cam , pistons and crank? Or is it more detailed than that?
I have a bone stock mid 80's 454 with only 50K on it just itching to be "warmed over".
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
motorman 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5176

Loc: south western pa.
Reg: 01-25-00
12-14-09 10:32 AM - Post#1823827    
    In response to pctahlequah

it was a 454 version of the L-72 1966 425 HP 427 ci corvette engine.solid lifter cam,11:1 comp ratio,rectangular intake port heads and forged pistons. the intake manifold was the "sunken" type because the engine was originally set to be put into a corvette and the manifold was necessary to clear the corvette hood.
retired race engine builder,former NASCAR tech inspector. new corvettes owned 1959,1962,1963,1964,1965, 1966,1997,1999,2002,2005, 2008 plus 30+ other chevy cars and trucks along the way. 2008 corvette sold and waiting on a C-7.


 
Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3746
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
12-14-09 01:21 PM - Post#1823907    
    In response to pctahlequah

  • pctahlequah Said:
What makes an LS6 454 an LS6? Is it basically the heads, intake, cam , pistons and crank? Or is it more detailed than that?
I have a bone stock mid 80's 454 with only 50K on it just itching to be "warmed over".



Unless it's an original LS6, it will never be anything else then a bigblock built to LS6 specifications. - If so: yes, you are right on the parts concerned assuming the best fasterners etc is used. The block must be 4-bolted to even be considered as a LS6-speced engine.

If you are getting anal and get all the right numbers, I guess you can honestly call it an LS6, if necessary. Depending on what you are looking for exactly: usefulness for a specified use or just "original bling" - the LS6 spec might, or might not, be what you want... if you are not into exact original - you should not waste time, money and torque on the LS6 specs.

Do you want a full list on the parts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-14-09 05:46 PM - Post#1824071    
    In response to Impala65SS

No it's not an actual LS6. it's just a 454 out of a chevy truck. I'm gonna run it as is for a while in my 66 C10. But later I want to beef it up, and I was always curious about the LS6 engines, like what was changed to crank out that factory horsepower.
Id love to see a parts list, but at this point it's not necessary to put you thru all that trouble.

Thanks, brother.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6401
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
12-14-09 05:53 PM - Post#1824081    
    In response to pctahlequah

If you are wanting 500 HP or so it aint hard to do with a 454 and a milder more streetable cam than what was in the LS-6 and use the factory Oval port heads on pump gas 10:1.

Just something to think about.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-14-09 06:29 PM - Post#1824109    
    In response to fritz1990

Hey Jeff....how goes it? I think a good set of heads is the key. Gotta have the flow.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6401
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
12-14-09 08:12 PM - Post#1824187    
    In response to pctahlequah

Fine, thanks for askin'! You?

If you have the 781 or 049 ovals on that motor those are bout as good a head you will need for 500 HP for a street ride in a heavy truck like ours.

I just put a lil' longer arm in mine while I was at it. I am using the 781's that I put 2.19-1.88 valves in and did some bowl work and port cleanup, nothing major. Sure does do some work when ya hit the motion pedal.

I have also done some stock compression 454's with the factory valves and they will scoot pretty well. Just depends on how much money ya want to spend.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-15-09 08:15 AM - Post#1824416    
    In response to fritz1990

I haven't got researched any numbers on it yet, all I've done is clean it and put it on the stand. I need to get some fuel for the shop heater so I can stand to be in the shop at night...

So you're not using the 1.7 rockers? what did you go with and how tall is the lift on the cam?
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
rumrumm 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1893
rumrumm
Loc: Macomb, IL
Reg: 10-18-01
12-15-09 09:26 AM - Post#1824444    
    In response to pctahlequah

The factory solid lifter cam in the LS6 had a duration of 242 degrees @.050 and a lift of .520/.520 on a 108 LSA. That, coupled with 11.25:1 static compression and the rectangular port heads gave the LS6 its legendary power. Despite today's gas, with advances in camshaft and head design, you should be able to make even more low and mid-range power with a smaller, more efficient cam (e.g., a Lunati 272), headers, and good exhaust system.
Lynn

"There's no 12-step program for stupid."


383 sbc, Eagle, AFR, SRP, CompCams, Edelbrock, Sanderson. Dyno #'s: 450 hp @ 5700, 468 ft. lbs. torque @ 4300.

http://photo.net/photos/Lynn%20Johanso n


 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6401
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
12-15-09 05:36 PM - Post#1824672    
    In response to rumrumm

Yes I run 1.7 Crane Golds, with .598 lift minus .015 lash.

Get a good 9.5 -10.0 comp and use the Isky 280 Mega Hyd cam. This is a screamer in a 454 for the street and your weight etc. With some decent heads as mentioned.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-16-09 10:34 AM - Post#1825027    
    In response to fritz1990

So which heads are better to have, oval or rectangular?
I had oval on a 69 396 (bored 30 over) a few years back and they didn't work well with my cam/intake/carb setup.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3746
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
12-16-09 11:59 AM - Post#1825064    
    In response to pctahlequah

Without hesitation my choice is oval iron heads for any street set up up to 650hp... With more or less original heads, there seems to be a high end gain (more impressive hp) with open chamber heads than closed chamber heads.
I usually don't have the money to spend on necessary reinforcements up to 650hp and +6500 rpm, so I aim between 450-550. If you need more than 450hp, you can get the bigger valves than the 2.06/1.72. It's not really necessary for 400ish output - and you loose low end power. Same with rectangular ports - they make a difference on high rpm +6500, under that they are yeilding less torque than the ovals.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-16-09 01:34 PM - Post#1825116    
    In response to Impala65SS

I only need to make power till around 5500 rpm.I get nervous going over that mark. I'm only after around 400 HP...450 max.
I won't be racing it at the strip, just goofin around on the street, pulling trailers, stuff like that.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3746
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
12-16-09 02:35 PM - Post#1825147    
    In response to pctahlequah

I was happy to read Car Crafts (or superchevy or chevy high performance) "recent" issue (oct, nov,dec or jan) on a 454 with 236 peanut ports, from which they got 400hp with just a cam and ridiculous 2 1/8" headers (they might have done a bit better - certainly down low with 1 7/8").

Later on, they put a supercharger on it, so that's why the header primaries was so immense. Don't remember the figures with the supercharger on it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-17-09 02:31 PM - Post#1825761    
    In response to Impala65SS

Check this out:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0707phr_big_...

The price tag is way steep for me, but I sure like it.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-19-09 09:32 PM - Post#1827088    
    In response to pctahlequah

Here's the lowdown on my engine:

Heads: 346236, open chamber peanut, oval port
Block: 14015445, 75-87 truck Light Duty

The block has " Hi Perf Pass" on the back behind the flywheel, but I'm told this doesn't mean anything.

So I guess I have a plain jane 215 HP BBC, but what a good place to start!
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
jetblue69 
Member
Posts: 157

Loc: Osteen, FL
Reg: 06-03-05
12-20-09 01:32 AM - Post#1827142    
    In response to pctahlequah

That's a good block, I have that same casting number. 4 bolt mains (don't get your hopes up) and that block had an extra oil galley along the left hand side for priority main oiling. If it has the oil cooler holes above the filter housing you're in business.
The only substitution for cubic inches is more cubic inches.


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-20-09 05:34 AM - Post#1827163    
    In response to jetblue69

It has oil cooler lines!! So it has 4bolt mains? I'll find out today anyway....I'm going to pull the pan and timing cover and change the seals/gaskets.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3746
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
12-20-09 08:59 AM - Post#1827253    
    In response to pctahlequah

  • pctahlequah Said:
It has oil cooler lines!! So it has 4bolt mains? I'll find out today anyway....I'm going to pull the pan and timing cover and change the seals/gaskets.



Do they come out from the block - or from a bolt-on adapter between the block an the oil filter? The latter alternative means probably 2bolt, which is fine too.

4-bolt isn't what it's cracked up to be, for a mild engine. Actually - for mild setups under 550hp and 6500rpm they are stealing hp by the extra weight from the forged steel crank. Also the flexibility of the forged steel means it bounces and twists more than the cast crank, which will steal hp and torque too.

When you really need the forged crank and the clamping force (clamping is always good), is in supercharging and high rpm applications.

I think you block and heads will take where you want to go. If you have a possibility to shave of 0.040" off the heads, it'll help the compression to come up some 0.7 from whatever you had before.
Steel shim gasket will round it off to one full CR point probably. Closer to 9:1 is much better for cam choices than almost 8:1...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-21-09 10:34 AM - Post#1827807    
    In response to Impala65SS

Yea, it as an adapter on it. Can I do away with it safely? I pulled the pan and it just has 2 bolt mains.
Another thing I noticed is that it has two timing indicators. One in the usual position mounted over the upper left side of the balancer, and one that was mounted on the oil pan over the lower left portion of the balancer. Is that just for convenience? Maybe easier to read from below?
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
Impala65SS 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3746
Impala65SS
Loc: Sweden
Reg: 08-23-07
12-21-09 11:13 AM - Post#1827843    
    In response to pctahlequah

  • pctahlequah Said:
Yea, it as an adapter on it. Can I do away with it safely? I pulled the pan and it just has 2 bolt mains.
Another thing I noticed is that it has two timing indicators. One in the usual position mounted over the upper left side of the balancer, and one that was mounted on the oil pan over the lower left portion of the balancer. Is that just for convenience? Maybe easier to read from below?


Yes, you can leave the oil cooler adapter out if you want - and just mount the filter "as god intended" so to speak

Sorry, I don't have any recollection of the double position timing tab.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXn2QVipK2o&a mp;fea...


 
dbradley 
Contributor
Posts: 838
dbradley
Loc: Sapulpa, OK
Reg: 11-15-09
12-21-09 04:40 PM - Post#1828012    
    In response to pctahlequah

If you want lots of torque just build a 496. Easily surpass the LS-6 numbers on pump gas.
Dave Bradley
62 Belair 496 TKO600
33 3W Master Coupe
06 C6 coupe 6spd


 
fritz1990 
Senior Member
Posts: 6401
fritz1990
Age: 52
Loc: Kansas
Reg: 02-16-03
12-21-09 05:33 PM - Post#1828046    
    In response to fritz1990

  • fritz1990 Said:
Fine, thanks for askin'! You?

If you have the 781 or 049 ovals on that motor those are bout as good a head you will need for 500 HP for a street ride in a heavy truck like ours.

I just put a lil' longer arm in mine while I was at it. I am using the 781's that I put 2.19-1.88 valves in and did some bowl work and port cleanup, nothing major. Sure does do some work when ya hit the motion pedal.

I have also done some stock compression 454's with the factory valves and they will scoot pretty well. Just depends on how much money ya want to spend.

Regards, Jeff



I kinda eluded to that.

Regards, Jeff
1998 K1500 6.5 Coal burner
1965 C10 with 498 BBC AFR Heads
1964 C10 Ran 348W for 6 years, now SBC.

Corvettes owned: '74 '77 '78 L82 Silver Anniversary, 2002 LS1

Don't have a nervous come together!

http://picasaweb.google.com/fritz199090


 
1971BB427 
Contributor
Posts: 135
1971BB427
Loc: Portland,Or
Reg: 12-06-09
12-22-09 05:38 PM - Post#1828752    
    In response to pctahlequah

It's pretty easy to get 500hp from a 454, and not even build it all that much. The small oval port heads will work fine, if you put in a little larger valves, and do some port work to match them up. I'm running oval port heads on a 427 that dynos around 465 HP at the flywheel, and is only running 9.5:1 compression TRW forged pistons.
Try not to go too radical on your cam duration. Cams with lots of lift, duration around 280-286 degrees, and lobe separation of around 112-114 will work spectacular on the street, and with a good intake and headers you'll get that 500 hp, and not be too rough on your idle too.
My cam is a solid lifter cam with 528" lift, 284 duration and 114 degrees separation. I'm running an old Edlebrock Torker, with a 750 Holley with vacuum secondaries, and a set of Doug Thorley headers into 2.5" exhaust. Lots of power, tons of low end torque, and it works with an automatic that doesn't require a high stall speed converter.

1969 Suburban 2wd 350
1963 Falcon gasser 464 BBC/Super T10 4 speed
1946 Austin gasser 327/TH350

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v691/marlinguy /D...
http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/DSCF3 906.JP...


Edited by 1971BB427 on 12-22-09 05:38 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
pctahlequah 
Contributor
Posts: 548
pctahlequah
Loc: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Reg: 08-03-08
12-24-09 06:37 AM - Post#1829615    
    In response to 1971BB427

That's what I'm lookin for. I don't want to spend a lot of cash on this engine yet, just want to make a little power and still be drivable. I have tons of other work to be done to the rest of the truck before I go tearing into the motor.
************* Preston

'66 Chevy pick-up:Small back glass, A/C cab, LWB 454/TH400/3.08 rear
'68 Impala: SS Fastback 454/700R4/3.08 rear
'07 Suzuki Boulevard C50 805cc




 
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