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Username Post: Doug Nash Transmissions        (Topic#225475)
rdobbs 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 59

Age: 70
Loc: Springfield, Tn 37172
Reg: 07-13-09
09-08-09 02:11 PM - Post#1768333    

Anyone have any experience with the 5 speed Doug
Nash manual Transmissions....Thinking about putting one in my 57, with hurst shifter. thanks

 
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awsum55 
Senior Member
Posts: 8838
awsum55
Age: 61
Loc: O.P. Kansas
Reg: 09-27-01
09-08-09 02:58 PM - Post#1768360    
    In response to rdobbs

Bullet proof tranny. Has a low first gear for hole shots and it's the same size as all the Muncies, Saginaws and 350 automatics, so there is no modification to install them.

I've had one in my '55 for 17 years and I like it a lot. The key with them is to go with about a 3.08-3.25 rear gear or your first gear will be crazy low and actually useless.
Five things that you cannot recover in life:

* The Stone after it's thrown
* The Word after it's said
* An Occasion after it's missed
* The Time after it's gone
* A person after they die


 
rdobbs 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 59

Age: 70
Loc: Springfield, Tn 37172
Reg: 07-13-09
09-08-09 03:39 PM - Post#1768391    
    In response to awsum55

I guess I will have a real sloe first gear..Have
a 472 9 inch ford rear, waiting on 496 blown BB
to arrive...........rd

 
1956cpe 
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 859
1956cpe
Loc: Carlsbad, CA
Reg: 07-07-04
09-08-09 05:12 PM - Post#1768465    
    In response to rdobbs

rdobbs,

I've had my Richmond street 5 speed for about five years now and like it a lot, really fun rowing through the gears. For big power, you may want to consider their new 5 speed that is rated for 600 foot pounds of torque.
In my trans first gear is 3.28 and fifth is 1 to 1
I have a 3.50 rear gear and I don't find it to be too low and is great for getting off the line.
Last, Richmonds are relatively expensive as they are made in the USA.

pete

 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25465

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
09-08-09 05:40 PM - Post#1768497    
    In response to awsum55

Isn't a DNE5 longer than a Muncie?

 
1956cpe 
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 859
1956cpe
Loc: Carlsbad, CA
Reg: 07-07-04
09-08-09 08:58 PM - Post#1768640    
    In response to Rick_L

Rick,

Not sure of the Muncie, and other trans dimensions, but for the DNE/Richmond-GM it is 21.57 inches from bellhousing to the end of the output shaft housing.

pete

 
awsum55 
Senior Member
Posts: 8838
awsum55
Age: 61
Loc: O.P. Kansas
Reg: 09-27-01
09-08-09 09:30 PM - Post#1768652    
    In response to Rick_L

  • Rick_L Said:
Isn't a DNE5 longer than a Muncie?



Rick, it could be CRS setting in, but I don't remember having to change my driveshaft.
Five things that you cannot recover in life:

* The Stone after it's thrown
* The Word after it's said
* An Occasion after it's missed
* The Time after it's gone
* A person after they die


 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
09-09-09 06:16 AM - Post#1768763    
    In response to Rick_L

  • Rick_L Said:
Isn't a DNE5 longer than a Muncie?



Rick,
A little info and some background.
The DNE4+1, which is the ORIGINAL Doug Nash 5sp, is where it all started. The Street version had a 3.27 1st gear and 5th gear was 1:1.
I don't know the exact details of the issues that Doug Nash was facing, but in about the 1987 time frame they were having economic issues and the design was bought out by Richmond. I personally have had BOTH the DN 5sp and the Richmond 5sp. The ONLY difference that I can tell between the two is the tail housing. The DN 5sp had DNE4+1 cast into the tail housing, and now the the word Richmond is cast into the tail housing. Soooooooooooooo, it APPEARS that when Richmond took over, all they did was change the tail housing!

I have the Richmond version behind the healthy 455 in my one owner, factory 5sp 76 Cutlass. No, the Richmond is NOT the original 5sp tranny to the Cutlass. It ORIGINALLY came with a weaker B-W 5sp, and I went through three of those until I installed the 455 and Richmond 5sp about 1988. Haven't touched it since I installed it. Although, I've had to pull it a couple of times to replace the clutch!

The Richmond is the same length as a Muncie ------------------ SORT OF! The 71-74 Muncies got the larger, 32spline tail shaft (same size as a Turbo 400), AND, they are 3/4in longer than the 63-70 Muncies.
I have a Hurst shifter on my Richmond that is specifically for the Richmond 5sp. It works great, BUUUUUUUUUT, there is one potential issue with the Hurst on the Richmond. The R5sp has reverse all the way over to the right, and back. DIRECTLY behind 5th. Thus, if you're not careful, when you pull the shifter handle out of 5th gear, and come back too far-----------you will accidentally grind reverse gear! So, when pulling it out of 5th, you GOTTA be careful not to go past the neutral position! Otherwise, the Richmond 5sp and the Hurst are an excellent combo.
As mentioned, with the low 1st gear of the R5sp, it is much more compatable with a high geared rearend. I have a 2.41 posi in the Cutlass, and the 3.27 of the Richmond equates to about like a car with a Muncie 4sp and a 3.73 rear gear.
Tom Parsons


 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
09-09-09 07:26 AM - Post#1768794    
    In response to DZAUTO

Oh ya, and the R5sp is 20-25lbs heavier than a Muncie!!!
I have ALWAYS installed/removed Muncies and other manual trannys, usually on my back, all by myself.
But years ago (20-25???) I pulled something in my right shoulder when hoisting the Doug Nash 5sp up into position for stabbing. My shoulder STILL bothers me. So, if you're going to stick a Richmond in your car----------------GET A BUDDY TO HELP WITH THE LIFTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Tom Parsons


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25465

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
09-09-09 10:24 AM - Post#1768914    
    In response to DZAUTO

"The Richmond is the same length as a Muncie ------------------ SORT OF! The 71-74 Muncies got the larger, 32spline tail shaft (same size as a Turbo 400), AND, they are 3/4in longer than the 63-70 Muncies."

So which one is the DNE transmission the same as?

I googled a bunch and couldn't find a length number on the Muncie.

 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
09-09-09 03:39 PM - Post#1769073    
    In response to Rick_L

FIRST!
The Doug Nash 5sp and the Richmond are EXACTLY the same tranny, EXCEPT for the tail housing (as I described)!
They BOTH have the larger tailshaft (same size as a Turbo 400) and are the same length as the 71-74 Muncie, which is 3/4in longer than a 63-70 Muncie, or a T-10 4sp, or a 55-57 Chevy 3sp tranny, or a 55-65 3spOD tranny!















Tom Parsons


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25465

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
09-09-09 05:33 PM - Post#1769147    
    In response to DZAUTO

OK, so we are all correct in a way, except you provided the details.

I just measured an aluminum case OEM Super T-10 at 22". Close enough to the Richmond 21.75". And a Saginaw 4 speed at 21.25".

And 3/4" or so longer than most Muncies, Saginaws (3 and 4 speed), T-10s, TH350s, original 55-57 transmissions (PG and manual), TH200-4Rs, aluminum Powerglides, early cast iron aftermarket Super T-10s, etc.

And same as a TH400, late Muncie, factory Super T-10s, etc.

 
DZAUTO 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 7376

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
09-09-09 06:17 PM - Post#1769181    
    In response to Rick_L

  • Rick_L Said:
OK, so we are all correct in a way, except you provided the details.

I just measured an aluminum case OEM Super T-10 at 22". Close enough to the Richmond 21.75". And a Saginaw 4 speed at 21.25".

And 3/4" or so longer than most Muncies, Saginaws (3 and 4 speed), T-10s, TH350s, original 55-57 transmissions (PG and manual), TH200-4Rs, aluminum Powerglides, early cast iron aftermarket Super T-10s, etc.

And same as a TH400, late Muncie, factory Super T-10s, etc.



I should have specified that the SUPER T-10 (which is NOW the Richmond Super T-10), 71-74 Muncie and Richmond 5sp are the same length.
Tom Parsons


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9472
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
09-09-09 06:24 PM - Post#1769186    
    In response to 1956cpe

  • 1956cpe Said:

In my trans first gear is 3.28...


When you see a really low 1st gear like that, it means the trans can handle lots of torque. It's why the weaker Muncies with OE gears had only 2.52, 2.56, and even 2.20 1st gears. The main reason the M22 rock crusher was strong was it didn't do much torque multiplication with its 2.20 1st gear.
Real Hot Rods have a Clutch!

1955 210 2dr: 327, Brodix IK180 heads, Jones cam, M20, Wilwood front brakes

1982 C-10 SWB pickup, 250 six, 3-speed

My car pictures



 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25465

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
09-09-09 07:31 PM - Post#1769231    
    In response to DZAUTO

"I should have specified that the SUPER T-10 (which is NOW the Richmond Super T-10), 71-74 Muncie and Richmond 5sp are the same length."

Being a geezer, I think of the 60s transmissions as the "standard" issue, and everything else varies from that. Part of that also comes from there being several automatics that are the same length, and some endured past the 60s.

My original post was based on the DNE5 being longer than the "standard" issue, as I recalled it. What I didn't know was they were the same as the later Muncies and Super T-10s.

So I definitely learned something today.

It's an important distinction, regardless of your point of reference.

 
502-fivespeed-57hardtop 
Contributor
Posts: 325
502-fivespeed-57hardtop
Loc: CT.
Reg: 09-15-07
09-09-09 08:14 PM - Post#1769249    
    In response to rdobbs

I purchased a good used low miles DNE 5-speed from a guy that was swapping it out for a turbo 400 in a big block 71 Camaro back in 1993, paid $1200.00 for the trans with the Hurst Shifter and the trans had only about 1500 miles on it. Installed it in my then 57 Bel Air 2 door hardtop with a mild built 350, had the stock 57 rear but installed a later 3:08 single legger center in that rear to go with the 5 speeds lower first gear. had the stock interior with the bench seat and fabbed an extension for the shifter to clear the bench seat, installed a turbo 400 style yoke on the stock 57 driveshaft with new heavy duty u-joints, used the stock 57 bellhousing, motor was front mounted and no crossmember under the trans, never had a problem, trans worked great and the car was a blast to drive, loved going through the gears as I got up onto the highway, before you even knew it you could be up to 90 mph in no time. My current 57 hardtop with the 502 has the newer Richmond version of the Doug Nash 5 speed trans, 502 is side mounted and the trans is on a crossmember, Bruce
Theres no replacement for displacement - 57 Bel Air 2 door hardtop, 502 crate motor, Richmond 5 speed, Currie 9 inch rear. 57 Bel Air 4 door wagon, 327, auto., just a fun driver car.


 
1956cpe 
"9th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 859
1956cpe
Loc: Carlsbad, CA
Reg: 07-07-04
09-09-09 08:46 PM - Post#1769277    
    In response to MikeB

Mike,

Yeah, I recently learned, here on CT, about torque multiplication. So far, the weak link through the entire drivetrain is the contact patch of the rear tires! I'm thankful for that. To make the occassional long journey I have considered swapping out the 5 speed for a Richmond 6 speed with 3.01 first gear and .62 6th. Time, money,and other needs, are all that's in the way.

pete

 
2Loose 
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4029
2Loose
Age: 72
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
09-09-09 11:00 PM - Post#1769320    
    In response to DZAUTO

  • DZAUTO Said:
The DNE4+1, which is the ORIGINAL Doug Nash 5sp, is where it all started. The Street version had a 3.27 1st gear and 5th gear was 1:1.

That's the one I have. I have a problem with my crank being not drilled for a pilot bushing, so am stuck as I cannot find any machine shop around here that can do that for me, and I am not equipped to center the crank to drill a straight bore for the pilot bushing. So my built early BOP switch pitch th400 might have to be used instead on my gasser project, but I sure wanted to slam some gears with my DN 4+1, as it's one of the original models, pristine, never been in a car....
All the Doug Nash trannies are good trans from what I've seen in my buddies rigs over the years, if you have access to one, you will love it!
As here on Maui we never get over 65, I figure a 3.50 rear is plenty with the gear ratios I have in that box. Plus I am running some tall tires on the back, so 5th will be like a tall overdrive around here !!!
I hope I get a chance to love mine!
Aloha
Willy
Slow Old Man=Fast Old Cars
PictureTrail
2Loose
Chevys:55.Hardtop;55.4drgasser;
55.4x4truck;58.prostreettruck
+57.Olds;70.BuickGS
Avatar:Bill Stinson


 
awsum55 
Senior Member
Posts: 8838
awsum55
Age: 61
Loc: O.P. Kansas
Reg: 09-27-01
09-10-09 06:00 AM - Post#1769453    
    In response to 2Loose

Willy, I thought you found a crank in another motor you had laying around that was drilled for a pilot?

That would be too bad if you had to put an automatic in that gasser.
Five things that you cannot recover in life:

* The Stone after it's thrown
* The Word after it's said
* An Occasion after it's missed
* The Time after it's gone
* A person after they die


 
498 chevy 
"6th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 351
498 chevy
Age: 62
Loc: hayward ca.
Reg: 09-28-07
09-10-09 07:58 AM - Post#1769532    
    In response to 2Loose

hi willy love the pix with your gasser. I can take care of that bushing problem. just ship it. PM me. ron
http://www.picturetrail.com/webe


 
2Loose 
"9th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 4029
2Loose
Age: 72
Loc: Sandwich Isles
Reg: 03-17-03
09-10-09 10:06 AM - Post#1769594    
    In response to awsum55

  • awsum55 Said:
Willy, I thought you found a crank ...... drilled for a pilot?



Hi John,
Yes, I did, and pulled that motor apart yesterday, the crank is ok, just not in as good a condition as I had hoped, will require journal polishing at the least and then checking the clearances thoroughly.

The major problem is the original crank was thoroughly reworked and balanced with the rods, pistons, dampener, for an internal balanced setup, and the "new" crank is not. I would have to take both cranks to Oahu and have the "new" crank reworked to the same specs as the "old" one. If I have to do that, might as well just get the "old" one drilled! Might get it all done anyway, so I will have a spare crank ready to go into the blower motor, with the Doug Nash 4+1 behind either one!

Oh my, I feel a spasm coming on inside my wallet!!!
Aloha,
Willy

 
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