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Username Post: Distributor A Tooth Off???        (Topic#215340)
56BUDDY 
Senior Member
Posts: 804

Loc: Union City, CA
Reg: 12-31-02
04-23-09 12:56 PM - Post#1683378    

Just wondering what the characteristics of an engine with the distributor mounted a tooth off? It starts nice, idles nice but, it has a major stumble or bog in the crate 350/330hp HO Deluxe with a 600 Holley. What about running too hot?

Thanks!
Mel




 
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awsum55 
Senior Member
Posts: 8838
awsum55
Age: 62
Loc: O.P. Kansas
Reg: 09-27-01
04-23-09 01:02 PM - Post#1683386    
    In response to 56BUDDY

I think a stumble or bog is probably your carb. Maybe you need a bigger pump shot. You might try to move the pin on the acc pump to get a longer squirt.
Five things that you cannot recover in life:

* The Stone after it's thrown
* The Word after it's said
* An Occasion after it's missed
* The Time after it's gone
* A person after they die


 
52chevybob 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5628

Reg: 05-27-08
04-23-09 01:34 PM - Post#1683410    
    In response to awsum55

You will have severe missing at either idle or high speed cruise.
You've just got another Holley carb that hasn't been tuned right for your engine.

 
HAL_396 
Member
Posts: 2953
HAL_396
Loc: Austin, TX
Reg: 11-16-06
04-23-09 02:03 PM - Post#1683432    
    In response to 56BUDDY

I've done that before. You'll know right away when you try and set your timing. You'll be off scale.
1955 Chevy Custom
1966 Biscayne
1966 Caprice Drag Car Inwork
1966 Caprice parts car
2004 Silverado
2007 Impala LS
2009 G5


 
acardon 
Senior Member
Posts: 9942
acardon
Loc: DFW TEXAS
Reg: 03-25-05
04-23-09 02:33 PM - Post#1683455    
    In response to HAL_396

  • Quote:
engine with the distributor mounted a tooth off?



You CANNOT mount a distributor "one tooth off" if you can turn it to get the timing to line up. If the vacuum canister is not hitting anything when you adjust the timing to specs, it's not "off". If the vacuum canister hits something before the timing mark lines up, then it can be "one (or more) tooth/teeth off".
Don
66 Corvair (driving)
57 2dr HT (driving)
56 2dr HT (waiting to be restored)


 
wagonman100 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 13553
wagonman100
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
04-23-09 02:36 PM - Post#1683458    
    In response to acardon

Don is correct. Even if the canister hits something, you can jump all of the wires over one and reset the dizzy sometimes, if you can't pull it to rotate one tooth. Usually there is enough room to move it. I would say it is you accelerator pump shot as well. If it feels like it is getting too much gas and boggin down, then you have to decrease the shot. If it feels like it is running out of gas, then you have to increase it. It may require a change in the booster itself if you can lean or fatten it up enough to solve the problem.
Jay
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9533
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
04-23-09 02:59 PM - Post#1683482    
    In response to acardon

  • acardon Said:
  • Quote:
engine with the distributor mounted a tooth off?



You CANNOT mount a distributor "one tooth off"...


Absolutely correct.

1982 C-10 SWB pickup -- Unmolested, original paint, 250 six, 3-on-the-tree
(Soon to be 350 w/Vortec heads & TH350)

Sold my 55 sedan in June 2014, having owned it 11 years.


 
56BUDDY 
Senior Member
Posts: 804

Loc: Union City, CA
Reg: 12-31-02
04-23-09 03:52 PM - Post#1683527    
    In response to acardon

  • acardon Said:
  • Quote:
engine with the distributor mounted a tooth off?



You CANNOT mount a distributor "one tooth off" if you can turn it to get the timing to line up. If the vacuum canister is not hitting anything when you adjust the timing to specs, it's not "off". If the vacuum canister hits something before the timing mark lines up, then it can be "one (or more) tooth/teeth off".




CT always has an answer! The vacuum canister does "hit" the intake manifold. I was looking at another car with the same motor and his distributor was no where near where mine was. That's what gave me the idea that the distributor was not installed correctly. It does start up nice and idles smooth.

We pulled the distributor and did find that the rotor did not point to the number 1 cylinder when we were at TDC. Remounted the distributor and now the vacuum canister does NOT hit anything.

Thanks again, CT!

Mel
Mel




 
Bad56Sedan 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 606
Bad56Sedan
Loc: Pasadena, Texas
Reg: 04-29-04
04-23-09 07:31 PM - Post#1683708    
    In response to 56BUDDY

Can you mount the distributor one tooth off?
Can you mount the distributor 7 teeth off?
The "one tooth off" term refers to what is usually discovered once the
distributor is dropped in and there is not enough room to
adjust the timing because the "so an so" hits
the "you know what".
So you know what happens next, pull the distributor
(noting where the rotor is as you pull it up), then get the long screwdriver,
move the oil pump shaft 27.69┬░ one way.
Move the rotor back the same 27.69┬░ and drop it in.
Now you find you can adjust the timing.
Why? Because you moved the rotor back one tooth
and therefore the relationship to the #1 plug wire must be moved
giving more room for adjustment.
VC56S 2 door Sedan, 34 Years


Edited by Bad56Sedan on 04-23-09 07:33 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Randy 57 
Contributor
Posts: 346
Randy 57
Loc: Pleasanton, California, U...
Reg: 02-25-06
04-23-09 08:35 PM - Post#1683735    
    In response to Bad56Sedan

I'm so confused here, one tooth off or not, is it a urban myth or does it happen???

So did it run better Mel after you put it back in? I came by tonight, but you weren't around maybe out cruising
www.cardomain.com/ride/2275896


 
wagonman100 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 13553
wagonman100
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Reg: 11-27-04
04-24-09 03:23 AM - Post#1683817    
    In response to Randy 57

The technical answer is yes, it can be installed one tooth off from where it should be, kind of. As an example, you set the motor so the timing indicator is where you would like your initial timing and drop in the distributor to try to line the rotor up with the #1 tower (and you can make any tower #1 as long as you put the wires in the correct firing order), but it rotates from where you expect it to be and doesn't point to #1 but a little off. You have just technically installed the distributor one tooth off. But as long as you can rotate the distributor enough to line up with the #1 tower without it being physically stopped by anything, you can fix the problem without removing the distributor again. Of course the motor would have to be run for fine tuning of the timing, but I think it's pretty clear what I am getting at. Even if the distributor runs into a physical limitation, you can choose a new tower as #1 and rotate the distributor accordingly and fix the problem as well. As long as it doesn't run into anything after you do that.
Jay
Some days it's not worth chewing through the restraints.

1999 Silverado Z71 4X4 extra-cab short bed
1983 Malibu Fauxmad - tubbed
1978 El Camino Kustomized
1972 Monte Carlo
1957 210 handyman wagon
1957 Nomad sport wagon


 
puzzley 
"11th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2534
puzzley
Age: 69
Loc: Lexington, Ky
Reg: 02-21-04
04-24-09 03:38 AM - Post#1683826    
    In response to wagonman100

"One tooth off" is an urban myth. As long as you have enough adjustment range, and you have the firing order correct, you can correctly time an engine from any cam/distributor tooth location....
John
Carpe Diem, Vita Brevis - "Seize the day, life is short"


 
george88gta 
"10th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 1768
george88gta
Loc: new york
Reg: 04-23-03
04-24-09 05:00 AM - Post#1683868    
    In response to puzzley

Well, it may be a myth today, but back when these cars were new, you had the vacuum advance canister and a metal vacuum line. Not a lot of room for adjustment. With todays setups, it is a myth unless you have a mechanical restriction. Just pay attention to where the rotor points when at TDC and go from there. On my 3rd gen, the only restirction is the length of the wires going to the distributor module. Lots of room to correct for the "one tooth off" syndrome. I like to set up my timing by bringing it to TDC, then set the distributor so that the rotor points towards the front of the engine. Sometimes you have to adjust the oil pump drive and I use an oil pump primer that I have marked with the location of the slot ( borrowed that idea from a CT member). Works every time.

Edited by george88gta on 04-24-09 05:01 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
beejay 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12605
beejay
Age: 78
Loc: Pflugerville, Texas
Reg: 06-01-04
04-24-09 10:09 AM - Post#1684088    
    In response to george88gta

You don't have to mess with the oil pump. Just drop the dizzy where you want it, and the gears will mesh. Then bump the engine over until the shaft falls into the oil pump. Then loosly tighten the dizzy for final timing adjustment.
Bruce

'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
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57belairman 
"12th Year" Platinum Supporting Member
Posts: 2964
57belairman
Age: 65
Loc: Missouri City Texas USA
Reg: 03-16-02
04-24-09 11:47 AM - Post#1684170    
    In response to beejay

Bruce, Only the old timers like me and you know that trick. I know some guys that are terrified to pull the dis fearing they will never be able to get it back.
Life is short, Eat dessert first, I always do!!

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Blown1100 
Contributor
Posts: 369

Loc: Weatherford,Texas
Reg: 05-11-03
04-24-09 12:09 PM - Post#1684190    
    In response to 57belairman

Another little trick is drop dis. pointed at #1
and then turn the key on and rotate dis. around #1 until you here it spark and loosely tighten and is alway close to T.D.C. and will start.
Loy

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 19242

Age: 71
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
04-24-09 01:27 PM - Post#1684241    
    In response to Blown1100

  • Blown1100 Said:
turn the key on and rotate dis. around #1 until you here it spark and loosely tighten and is alway close to T.D.C. and will start.


This is the way "real" mechanics would set the initial timing so they could start the engine in the days before breakerless distributors. As long as you have points, it never fails.

Ray
Bacon is the gateway drug for vegetarians - Bridget Lancaster


 
CJS57 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2462
CJS57
Age: 68
Loc: New Milford , Connecticut
Reg: 01-18-05
04-24-09 02:20 PM - Post#1684276    
    In response to Blown1100

You can also do what Blown1100 said but even better, you set the timing mark on the balancer at 12 degrees or wherever you want it to be. Then hook up the timing light to No. 1 plug wire. Then rotate the distributor until the points just break and the timing light flashes. Then tighten down the distributor right there. You will have dead on timing from the get go.
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp, 58,000 original miles, original never rebuilt 283 engine, 245hp, Dual Fours, Tremec TKO 600 5-speed, 3.70 gears, AACA Senior in 1985
previous trifives:
1955 Belair Convt
1956 210 2dr Sdn
1957 Belair 2Dr Hdtp


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9533
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
04-24-09 04:59 PM - Post#1684378    
    In response to CJS57

Another reason to rotate a distributor one tooth is to keep a plug boot from hitting the firewall (and rubbing through the boot) when using a tight-fitting HEI.

1982 C-10 SWB pickup -- Unmolested, original paint, 250 six, 3-on-the-tree
(Soon to be 350 w/Vortec heads & TH350)

Sold my 55 sedan in June 2014, having owned it 11 years.


 
beejay 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12605
beejay
Age: 78
Loc: Pflugerville, Texas
Reg: 06-01-04
04-25-09 11:04 AM - Post#1684793    
    In response to CJS57

Your method will work, but I use a vacuum gauge to set the timing, along with the timing light. Set to max rpm, adjust carb for max rpx, tighten dizzy, and drive it. If it pings, back off two degrees at a time until it doesn't ping. All these methods are just variations on a theme!!
Bruce

'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
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Gray Headed Mule 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4732
Gray Headed Mule
Loc: Fort Worth, Texas
Reg: 12-11-03
04-25-09 06:14 PM - Post#1685016    
    In response to beejay

What we have here is a bunch of shade tree mechanics that each have their own prefered way and all of them will work if it is the way that you want it to work or have learned that it will work or when you need it to work most of the time or should I say a majority of the time if you do it the way you said you did it and it worked then it worked!

Now! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!
Mule

I'm sexy and I know it!

My 49 Chevy Fleetline Deluxe Restoration Project


 
beejay 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12605
beejay
Age: 78
Loc: Pflugerville, Texas
Reg: 06-01-04
04-26-09 10:45 AM - Post#1685350    
    In response to Gray Headed Mule

"Now! Put that in your pipe and smoke it!! "

Now, Mulie, ya know darn good and well that I DON'T smoke, much less a pipe!!!
Bruce

'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
http://www.picturetrail.com/beejay3/"


 
Cmartinjr 
Member
Posts: 231

Reg: 11-16-03
05-01-09 10:03 PM - Post#1689718    
    In response to beejay

timing being a tooth off is for timing belts/chains. in the 4 cylinders where the distributor is run by the timing belt then yeah it being off will make for fun times get everything firing at the right point. mainly the tooth off is when your cam and crank aren't aligned properly. losing power on one tooth, seriously low power to no running on two.
proud owner of a piece of junk
1984 Chevy G-10 van, complete with I-6 250 V-8 305 and 3 on the floor.


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9533
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
05-02-09 03:34 AM - Post#1689771    
    In response to Bad56Sedan

  • Quote:
move the oil pump shaft 27.69┬░ one way.
Move the rotor back the same 27.69┬░ and drop it in.



And we measure that how?


1982 C-10 SWB pickup -- Unmolested, original paint, 250 six, 3-on-the-tree
(Soon to be 350 w/Vortec heads & TH350)

Sold my 55 sedan in June 2014, having owned it 11 years.


 
cnbell 
"11th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 8978
cnbell
Loc: So Cal
Reg: 04-14-04
05-02-09 09:06 AM - Post#1689919    
    In response to MikeB

Feeler gauge ?.....
Craig

http://www.picturetrail.com/cnbell


 
beejay 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 12605
beejay
Age: 78
Loc: Pflugerville, Texas
Reg: 06-01-04
05-02-09 10:09 AM - Post#1689951    
    In response to MikeB

Mike, go to a PME shop and get your eyeballs calibrated!!! Only way to fly!!
Bruce

'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
http://www.picturetrail.com/beejay3/"


 
MikeB 
Senior Member
Posts: 9533
MikeB
Loc: Plano, TX
Reg: 08-28-03
05-02-09 02:24 PM - Post#1690081    
    In response to beejay

PME? Precision Measuring Equipment?

1982 C-10 SWB pickup -- Unmolested, original paint, 250 six, 3-on-the-tree
(Soon to be 350 w/Vortec heads & TH350)

Sold my 55 sedan in June 2014, having owned it 11 years.


 
Bad56Sedan 
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 606
Bad56Sedan
Loc: Pasadena, Texas
Reg: 04-29-04
05-02-09 06:19 PM - Post#1690194    
    In response to MikeB

SBC has 13 teeth on the distrib gear
360┬░ / 13 = 27.69┬░
27.69┬░ is one tooth
measure it by moving it back one tooth
VC56S 2 door Sedan, 34 Years


Edited by Bad56Sedan on 05-02-09 06:20 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
jovyarcher 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 6

Reg: 08-26-09
09-07-09 01:07 PM - Post#1767735    
    In response to Bad56Sedan

having a trip to the PME shop will do, The only way to do is to calibrate it, just as beejay said so...
Life is what you make it!


 
Rich57 
Deceased Member
Posts: 803
Rich57
Loc: Near Tomales, CA USA
Reg: 10-17-02
09-07-09 03:43 PM - Post#1767848    
    In response to 56BUDDY

Lots of good info being tossed aout here! I saved an article about curing a bog if you have a vacuum canister on the distributor. With the engine running pull the hose off and see if the engine rpm drops. If this happens you had the hose coming from a direct source which is not good. Block off where the hose was attached and attach it to a ported vacuum source. This will many times cure the bog. I have not tried this so I am not sure if this on the up and up. Rich
mmm


 
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