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 Page 1 of 2 12
Username Post: Here is a real, virgin 62 409/409 biscayne        (Topic#202286)
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7572

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-01-08 04:15 PM - Post#1554939    

This belongs to a very dear friend of mine. He bought it used (BARELY) in the fal of 1962. Drove it during the week to college (Ok St Univ, Ok A&M back then) and drag raced it on weekends. Won LOTS of trophies.
This is a REAL, HONEST TO GOD 409/409 car, original paint, interior, unmolested 409 (except headers added). My friend pointed out a few things to me, such as the ORIGINAL silk screened ORANGE instructions on the air cleaner (he says today's repo decals are Beige).
















Tom Parsons


 
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62BillT 
"13th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5006
62BillT
Loc: Moneta, VA
Reg: 09-24-01
11-01-08 04:32 PM - Post#1554954    
    In response to DZAUTO

Nice car!

I like the nice height that the front end sits at too.

Bill
Member:
-National Impala Association
-Vintage Chevrolet Club of America


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5173

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
11-01-08 05:17 PM - Post#1554978    
    In response to DZAUTO

I noticed the valve covers have the original silver paint that I remember...not the goldish/green tinted silver of the restoration paints which many claim to be correct.

Where is the tach?

Richard

 
real61SS 
Senior Member
Posts: 727

Loc: Richmond, Va. USA
Reg: 09-04-02
11-01-08 05:28 PM - Post#1554988    
    In response to Richard Martin

Lots of lessons to be learned from that car....I noticed the 5" "409" wheels. Take that car to a LGC show and they would probably take off points for them!!!!
Tommy's Early Muscle Cars
61 Impala SS 409/360 4 speed
61 Ford Starliner 390/401 4 speed
61 Pontiac Ventura 425A 4 speed
62 Corvette 327/300 4 speed
63 Ford Galaxie XL 406/4 speed
64 Plymouth 426 4 speed


 
Verne_Frantz 
58-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4121
Verne_Frantz
Loc: hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-01-08 06:36 PM - Post#1555031    
    In response to real61SS

Yes, very neat car that I've seen a little of before.

The air cleaner instructions were both orange and yellow (for what-ever reason) but both are correct. I wonder why the oil filler tube has a throttle spring bracket on it?

Tell us about the other 2 '62s in the shop....

Verne

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7572

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-01-08 08:36 PM - Post#1555095    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

  • Verne_Frantz Said:
Yes, very neat car that I've seen a little of before.

The air cleaner instructions were both orange and yellow (for what-ever reason) but both are correct. I wonder why the oil filler tube has a throttle spring bracket on it?

Tell us about the other 2 '62s in the shop....

Verne



Those are "severe" projects for the future. To become whatever John decides------------------ --and most probably at least one will be a 409 car.
They are in line for their turn through the restoration process. As we speak, the car undergoing restoration is a 58 Corvette that is a genuine FI HD brake/suspension car with all the correct pieces (58 was the last year for the rear brake cooling duct work). Right behind it is a 57 Corvette for his wife (a 270hp 2x4 4sp car). And behind that is a genuine 270hp 4sp conversion 57 Belair 2dr, original 270hp block, batwing and all.
Tom Parsons


 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5167
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-02-08 05:11 AM - Post#1555200    
    In response to DZAUTO

Nice car Tom- it has those same hooks on the front as Verne's.

Why did he add the oil breather/cap on the passenger side?

Some people would restore that- I like it the way it is, its only original once.

Don
62 Bel Air SC, 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold in Finland is 2011), 63 SWC Vette (sold)
Member #2194
The pic in my Avatar is a Corona Cream Loaner, a buddy wants me to drive it for him, it has original interior


 
Verne_Frantz 
58-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4121
Verne_Frantz
Loc: hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-02-08 05:54 AM - Post#1555218    
    In response to DonSSDD

Don,
A lot of racers back then added breathers to the valve covers. Excessive crankcase pressure can cost horsepower. Also, oil can make it up past the rings.

John's car is just the way I like to see them I'd love to crawl over that car "up close & personal"

Verne

PS: The dates aren't set yet, but the NIA convention '09 (probably late July-early Aug) will be in Charlotte, NC. Drags are also planned at the new facility at the speedway. John's car would be a big HIT there. (nudge-nudge)

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7572

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-02-08 06:57 AM - Post#1555239    
    In response to Richard Martin

  • Richard Martin Said:
I noticed the valve covers have the original silver paint that I remember...not the goldish/green tinted silver of the restoration paints which many claim to be correct.

Where is the tach?

Richard



Richard,
The tach was an option and I suppose it wasn't ordered with the car. This is a true bare bones "Beach Boys" 409 car: 4sp, Dual Quads, Positraction, 409! No frills, no options, no radio, no heater.
Shifting (just as I still do today) was done by "feel and ear".
Oh ya, and John still has the ORIGINAL 2 1/2in ex manifolds that he removed from the car back in the early 60s.

Tom Parsons


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5173

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
11-02-08 07:16 AM - Post#1555247    
    In response to DZAUTO

"The tac was an option"

Tom:

With all due respect, the tach was standard equipment with the 4-speed option (RPO # 685 @ $236.75 retail)) when ordered with 327/300, 409/380 and 409/409 engines. The info is from the earliest (printed in late 1961) 1962 Chevrolet specs. Please don't take my word for it...ask Verne. If a '62 409 car left the factory without a tach it is an indication it originally had a 3-speed trans. If the tach was removed there would be two small holes where the screws held it to the steering column. The tach was an option (RPO 331 @ $48.45) on other V8 cars with any trans. including 409s with 3-spds and the 327/250 with a 4-speed. The retail price of the 4-speed with a 327/250 was $188.30...$48.45 less because the tach wasn't included.

Richard

 
doubleE 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3810
doubleE
Loc: Eagan MN
Reg: 06-02-03
11-02-08 07:35 AM - Post#1555262    
    In response to Richard Martin

If you look closly at the 1st interiour photo you can see the two holes on the cloum where the tach was at one time. Maybe the batteries wore out on the sender and a newer tach was installed at some point.

Eric
Proud owner of My Blue 62 Impala SS


Edited by doubleE on 11-02-08 07:36 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5173

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
11-02-08 07:41 AM - Post#1555266    
    In response to doubleE

Eric: I see the holes now that I look closer and have my glasses on. Thanks.

Richard

 
Verne_Frantz 
58-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4121
Verne_Frantz
Loc: hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-02-08 08:54 AM - Post#1555312    
    In response to Richard Martin

Here's an excerpt from the '62 Finger Tip Facts salesmen's book.



Tom,
Did you take a photo of the firewall area in front of the driver? There's a good chance there might be a hole/grommet there for the tach harness. But then, some plants took a short cut and ran it through the large speedo cable grommet.

Verne

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7572

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-02-08 01:58 PM - Post#1555439    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

I'll ask John about it.
I probably only saw some literature where it was shown to be an option and concluded it was optional on all powertrain versions.
Anyway, it's still a very basic 409 Biscayne.
Tom Parsons


 
VintageCarryall 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 2236

Loc: Arizona
Reg: 10-08-06
11-02-08 03:07 PM - Post#1555472    
    In response to DZAUTO

  • DZAUTO Said:
I'll ask John about it.
I probably only saw some literature where it was shown to be an option and concluded it was optional on all powertrain versions.
Anyway, it's still a very basic 409 Biscayne.



That 409 car is what I would term living history.
1994 Dodge Caravan SWB 3.3L V6
1962 Studebaker Lark 4 door 350 Chevy/TH350



 
Bowtie Jim 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 490
Bowtie Jim
Loc: OK
Reg: 05-07-03
11-03-08 07:41 AM - Post#1555884    
    In response to VintageCarryall

I have seen this car several times in person . It is as good as it gets. Would mutch rather see something like this than a 100 pt restored one. Like he said living history.
Get in sit down shut up hold on



 
No_Dice 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 13762
No_Dice
Loc: San Jose, CA
Reg: 04-23-01
11-03-08 08:24 AM - Post#1555927    
    In response to Bowtie Jim

!!THAT!!IS!!COOL!!


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 18992

Age: 71
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
11-03-08 08:27 AM - Post#1555931    
    In response to DZAUTO

What is the second belt and pulley for? At first I thought it was a PS pump, but after looking more closely, I don't believe it is.

Ray
Bacon is the gateway drug for vegetarians - Bridget Lancaster


 
Johnnee D. 
Member
Posts: 64
Johnnee D.
Loc: Ontario, Canada
Reg: 11-08-04
11-03-08 08:45 AM - Post#1555943    
    In response to raycow

wow!!! real cool...any pictures from the past? seeing it in action a few decades ago? incredible!I can't believe people keep cars that long in original condition, this is a great story waiting to be told to all of us...
Shift Happens...


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5173

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
11-03-08 09:42 AM - Post#1555967    
    In response to raycow

  • raycow Said:
What is the second belt and pulley for? At first I thought it was a PS pump, but after looking more closely, I don't believe it is.

Ray



It is called a idler pulley and belt...on the 409 engines without power steering. There are different opinions for the purpose but I believe it was to keep the water pump turning at a constant speed if the fan belt was slipping or came off which happened sometimes at high RPM. Some of the solid lifter hi-perf. 348 engines had the same setup.

Richard


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 18992

Age: 71
Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
11-03-08 09:58 AM - Post#1555981    
    In response to Richard Martin

Ahhh - so you could take off the generator belt long enough to run down the strip and save the power required to drive it. I'll bet some racers did just that if it was legal at whatever strip they were running at.

Ray
Bacon is the gateway drug for vegetarians - Bridget Lancaster


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5173

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
11-03-08 10:06 AM - Post#1555984    
    In response to raycow

As I remember it NHRA had a rule against removing the gen. belt but I'm sure some racers ran the belt as loose as they could get away with.

Richard

 
Verne_Frantz 
58-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4121
Verne_Frantz
Loc: hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-03-08 11:33 AM - Post#1556031    
    In response to Richard Martin

Jenkins ran a generator rather than an alternator on the '63 Z-11 and had a cut-out switch wired to the field coils. He also ran the belt upside down.

Verne

 
DonSSDD 
Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 5167
DonSSDD
Loc: Nova Scotia, Canada
Reg: 08-21-01
11-03-08 01:36 PM - Post#1556102    
    In response to Verne_Frantz

Vettes had a second belt around 65-66, from the balancer to the water pump. No idler pulley, a lot of fun to replace since no way to loosen the belt.

Don
62 Bel Air SC, 59 El Camino (sold), 62 Bel Air SC(sold in Finland is 2011), 63 SWC Vette (sold)
Member #2194
The pic in my Avatar is a Corona Cream Loaner, a buddy wants me to drive it for him, it has original interior


 
Bigcarman 
Super Senior Member
Posts: 6175
Bigcarman
Loc: Tucson, Arizona
Reg: 01-20-00
11-03-08 03:50 PM - Post#1556205    
    In response to DonSSDD

  • Quote:
Would mutch rather see something like this than a 100 pt restored one.



I agree! But, I also feel that way with a gennie low-mileage, 6 cyl, 3 speed, 4-door!
Robert
63 Impala currently under "rolling restoration;"
97 Monte Carlo daily driver;
80 F-100 78,000 original miles (Dad's old truck)


 
Verne_Frantz 
58-64 Subject Matter Expert
Posts: 4121
Verne_Frantz
Loc: hightstown,NJ USA
Reg: 08-22-00
11-03-08 04:17 PM - Post#1556225    
    In response to Bigcarman

  • Bigcarman Said:
  • Quote:
Would mutch rather see something like this than a 100 pt restored one.



I agree! But, I also feel that way with a gennie low-mileage, 6 cyl, 3 speed, 4-door!



And I agree with that too! When I look at a restored car, I find myself looking at what's wrong. When I look at an unrestored car, I find myself looking at what's right!. IT's a much better feeling!

Verne

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7572

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-03-08 06:08 PM - Post#1556343    
    In response to raycow

Ray,
As already mentioned, that is an idler pulley setup to provide added security for the water pump to be driven in case the gen-pump belt fails.
Hi-power cars (with solid cams) and mid 60s Vettes with solid lifter cams also had them. They were only around for 3-4yrs. Gennie idler pulley setups for these cars bring big bucks now (of course, you gotta have the pump/crank pulleys to go with them also).
Tom Parsons


 
Bowtie Jim 
"4th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 490
Bowtie Jim
Loc: OK
Reg: 05-07-03
11-04-08 07:44 AM - Post#1556675    
    In response to DonSSDD

  • DonSSDD Said:
Vettes had a second belt around 65-66, from the balancer to the water pump. No idler pulley, a lot of fun to replace since no way to loosen the belt.

Don



I still use this set-up. Not hard at all to roll the belt into place. If you look in the Chevy power book last I looked they still showed the correct parts to do this.
Get in sit down shut up hold on



 
impala 
Senior Member
Posts: 1211
impala
Loc: Pittsburgh, PA USA
Reg: 07-13-00
11-04-08 01:55 PM - Post#1556961    
    In response to DZAUTO

Has he ever looked for or found the build sheet?
Am I correct to assume the long block is a replacement due to it being black rather than Chevy engine orange?
impala
61 Impala Convertible, AACA senior
94 Jaguar, XJS, V12 coupe
11 Silverado
03 Impala Sedan


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7572

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
11-04-08 07:40 PM - Post#1557249    
    In response to impala

  • impala Said:
Has he ever looked for or found the build sheet?
Am I correct to assume the long block is a replacement due to it being black rather than Chevy engine orange?
impala




Don't know about the build sheet, never asked him, but I'll try to remember to do that.

NO SIR!!!!
That motor is the one that was sitting in the engine mounts when the body was dropped!!!!!
That's not black, that is THIN factory paint that is partially worn off and partially covered with 46yrs of grime!!!!!
THIS IS A 100%, ORIGINAL, UNRESTORED, NUMBERS MATCHING, EVERYTHING'S THERE (EXCEPT FOR HEADERS) 1962 409/409 BISCAYNE. IT IS THE REAL DEAL!!!!!!!!! (well, the breathers have been added to the valve covers )
And as I mentioned above, John has the original 2 1/2in exhaust manifolds on a shelf. We pulled them out and I took this picture.
Tom Parsons


 
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