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Username Post: 1956 Power Pac Heads        (Topic#180325)
4dr 57 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3316
4dr 57
Loc: The Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
01-23-08 10:04 AM - Post#1349228    

I recently saw a post about 57 Power Pac Heads and couldn't help but think that I remembered seeing some really interesting Casting Marks on the 56 Power Pac Cylinder Heads. But this was along time ago. I seem to remember a couple of individual types of Towers. One for a 2x4 arrangement and another for Fuel Injection?
I just don't know.
Can anyone tell me if they exist or was it all a figment of my imagination.
Thanks

The trouble is you think you have time - Buddha




 
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OldDad 
Senior Member
Posts: 1921
OldDad
Age: 70
Loc: The Great NorthWest
Reg: 06-06-04
01-23-08 10:43 AM - Post#1349265    
    In response to 4dr 57

2 Tower heads on 56 Corvette (don't remember the casting number), single tower 997 casting for 57, except for the high horse Fuelie in 57, they were 539 casting (same as power pack). No Fulie in 56, except for Tom Parson's 400 small block fulie air box car. Just kidding Tom.
The S.O.B. from the factory...
71 1/2 ton, 64 Chevelle SS, 57 2dr Hardtop, 57 2dr Sedan, 57 Corvette, 52 2dr Hardtop, 52 2dr Sedan, and now a 49 Plymouth Coupe


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-23-08 11:42 AM - Post#1349310    
    In response to OldDad

And that is a true statement (about the 56 heads).
The "Power pack" heads, if that is an acceptable term, for 56 I suppose would the the double tower heads that were used on the 2x4 carb engines (225 and 240hp). All 56 V8 engines were 265.

It is also true that FI was not a PRODUCTION option until 57, BUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUT, there were 2 1956 Corvettes (for testing purposes) that had FI installed on them by Chevrolet. UNFORTUNATELY, I have never been able to locate any information about the VIN numbers on those 2 Vettes. One of those 2 56 Vettes was in an automotive magazine article by Tom McCahill (spelling?) in the Summer of 56.

Furthermore, FI WAS NOT available at the beginning of 57 production. It first appeared on Vettes in the fall of 56 and on Pass cars in the Spring of 57. A brand new book by Ken Kayser does an excellent job of detailed documentation and history of Rochester FI.
He even includes photos of Chev, Pont and Olds FI (FI on Olds was terminated before it made production, but he included pictures of a 57 Olds with prototype FI installed!!!!!!). FI was also planned for the Buick and 5 FI units were installed on Cadillacs!!!!!!!!! Unfortunately, none survived!
I knew about the 5 Cad FI units many years ago, but never knew about their final disposition.

Its a shame that FI ended in 65 (Vette). There was even a prototype for the 409 and 396BB, but they never saw production. TRUE FI (electronic) didn't return until 85 (Vettes), and now everything has FI!!!!!!!!!
I guess the auto industry felt the wheel needed to be re-invented.
Tom Parsons


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5084

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
01-23-08 12:01 PM - Post#1349320    
    In response to DZAUTO

'57 fuel injection availability

"and on Pass cars in the Spring of '57"

Tom: What about the famous Black Widow cars and the other '57s such as Smokey Yunick's, that were entered in the NASCAR '57 Daytona beach race?

Richard

 
Gene_Schneider 
Ultra Senior Member
Posts: 10932

Loc: Wisconsin..USA
Reg: 09-27-02
01-23-08 04:33 PM - Post#1349521    
    In response to Richard Martin

The 1956 P.P. heads had casting #3725306. They had the higher compression ratio but the small intake ports.
The dual 4 Barrel heads had casting #3732262 and had the larger intake ports the same as all 1957 heads.
ChevGene 1934 Master sedan 1939 Master DeLuxe Town Sedan 1950 Styline DeLuxe Power Glide 1957 Nomad 283 PG 1963 Corvair Convertible


 
4dr 57 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3316
4dr 57
Loc: The Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
01-23-08 06:41 PM - Post#1349639    
    In response to Gene_Schneider

Some very interesting info!!

Yes,I forgot to list the Cylinder Head Casting #'s

55-56 v8 2 barrell 3837064
56 v8 4 barrell 3725306
56 v8 2x4's 3731762

These are for standard production cyl. heads.
I was told some time ago that there were 2 different casting marks - one for the dual quad motor and one for the corvette. Does this line up with anything in that wonderful book you have Tom?
I had a sketch of the 2 different designs at one time but dangnabit if I can find it! I'll probably start having deportment problems again if i don't get my stuff more organized

Great info! Any Pics Available?

The trouble is you think you have time - Buddha




 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 06:27 AM - Post#1349919    
    In response to Richard Martin

  • Richard Martin Said:
'57 fuel injection availability

"and on Pass cars in the Spring of '57"

Tom: What about the famous Black Widow cars and the other '57s such as Smokey Yunick's, that were entered in the NASCAR '57 Daytona beach race?

Richard


Those cars with FI very well may have had either pre-production FI units, or the FI units may have been indirectly directly supplied to Smokey and/or SEDCO (Southern Engineering Development Company).
After all these years we are NOT going to know what FI units were used on any of those cars, BUT, it would make a difference if we could find out conclusively which model FI unit was on those cars. The reason is that the very FIRST FI units were 4360 and those were specifically allocated for Corvette usage. Ed Cole was quite upset that the pass cars wouldn't get FI until the second units, 4520, were available. Those units wouldn't be available until sometime in Feb. According to the documentation that Ken Kayser has provided in his new book, it was officially announced on Feb 9, 57 that FI would be available on pass cars (which would be the 4520 units). BUT, production of the 4520 units by Rochester didn't occur until Feb 25, and the first cars available with FI was Mar 1.
I know, I know, I know, there have always been reported pass cars with FI prior to this time. I can't elaborate on these differences. But with over 35yrs of accumulated documentation on the history of Rochester FI and the sequence of events that occured, Ken has put together an incredible book over 600 pages with MANY never seen before pictures and engineering drawings.
For example, I have known about the 5 FI units installed on Cadillacs, but have never known anyone who could elaborate on their disposition. Ken has provided the information about them.

Soooooooooooooo Richard, to finally give you an answer to your question, it APPEARS that REGULAR PRODUCTION Chevrolet passenger cars, equiped with factory installed Rochester fuel injection, were not available until the end of Feb/early Mar. I AM NOT stating that this is gospel, but at least Ken has provided information, ON PAPER, WITH WHAT APPEARS TO BE CREDIBLE DOCUMENTATION, which up to this point has not been provided. It becomes very difficult to dispute something in black and white when it was obtained from the orignial source.
Ken began his association with GM in 1971 as an engineering student at GMI (General Motors Institute) and has been involved with GM and accumulating FI information ever since.
So, that's all I can tell you.
If you should have any interest in purchasing one of Kens books, go to http://www.tachometerpress.com/
I've been rebuilding Rochester FI units, and have FI on my 56 Vette, for over 25yrs. I've been fascinated with, and learning all I can about, FI since it was first introduced in 1957.
Tom Parsons


 
Jay_Hammond 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1285

Loc: New Castle, De. USA
Reg: 07-27-00
01-24-08 08:20 AM - Post#1349992    
    In response to DZAUTO

Tom: What is your fax number? I would like to send you a copy of the "retail buyers order" for my DelRay, dated 1-19-57. This is from Capitol Chevrolet, Inc in Montgomery, ALA. Included in the options is Fuel injection (283 HorsePower) for $484.20. Interesting though, the car was not delivered until May 14th. Also have those documents.
Jay
'57 150 270hp '57 Delray 283hp '57 Adobe Beige rag, 220hp, O.D, posi '57 Nomad 220hp, glide '36 Plymouth (oops) woodie, w/325 Dodge hemi


 
Richard Martin 
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts: 5084

Loc: Davis Islands, Florida
Reg: 06-12-03
01-24-08 08:38 AM - Post#1350005    
    In response to DZAUTO

Tom:

Thank you for for all the information. Very interesting stuff. By May 1st NASCAR no longer allowed fuel injection.

Richard

 
Royer 
Needs to Get Out More Member
Posts: 11411

Loc: Bloomfield Hills, Michiga...
Reg: 09-25-01
01-24-08 09:07 AM - Post#1350034    
    In response to Jay_Hammond

Dealers could very well have accepted ORDERS for an option that wasn't yet in production. The fact that the car wasn't DELIVERED until May tells us quite a bit about production of these cars.

Royer

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 09:30 AM - Post#1350046    
    In response to Jay_Hammond

Jay,
It would be nice to see those papers, BUUUUUT, I need to know when you are going to fax them so that I can be near by the (govt) fax machine to retrieve them immediately.
405-734-2338fax
Tom Parsons


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 09:40 AM - Post#1350054    
    In response to Royer

Royer makes a very good point here. Obviously FI was already in the production system because by late Oct-early Nov, Corvettes were on the street with FI.
Furthermore, it was STRONGLY believed that FI would also be available on Pass cars, BUT, it was not OFFICIALLY announced until Feb 9 (according the Ken Kayser's documentation). Also, a LOT of paperwork was in the process for spinning up to the installation of FI installation on Pass cars. Ed Cole himself was a BIG influence on FI installation on Pass cars, and as I mentioned earlier, he was unhappy when informed that FI wouldn't be included in Pass car production until Feb!
So, it appears that the word was out that Pass cars would eventually get FI. Now, as to the VERY FIRST day that the very first PRODUCTION Chevy pass car hit the street with FI, it seems that it can only be narrowed down to the last week of Feb-first week of Mar. Probably only an actual assembly plant worker who was there when that first pass car rolled out the back door of the plant can answer that question.
Tom Parsons


 
Jay_Hammond 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1285

Loc: New Castle, De. USA
Reg: 07-27-00
01-24-08 11:06 AM - Post#1350124    
    In response to DZAUTO

Tom: What would be a good time to use OUR government's fax machine?
Think Borders might have this new book on FI?
Jay
'57 150 270hp '57 Delray 283hp '57 Adobe Beige rag, 220hp, O.D, posi '57 Nomad 220hp, glide '36 Plymouth (oops) woodie, w/325 Dodge hemi


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 11:10 AM - Post#1350129    
    In response to Jay_Hammond

Right now. I'll go watch for it.
Tom Parsons


 
Jay_Hammond 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1285

Loc: New Castle, De. USA
Reg: 07-27-00
01-24-08 11:25 AM - Post#1350133    
    In response to DZAUTO

Did you get it. Please don't tell anyone about the 4th accessory in the left column. Alabama car?
Jay
'57 150 270hp '57 Delray 283hp '57 Adobe Beige rag, 220hp, O.D, posi '57 Nomad 220hp, glide '36 Plymouth (oops) woodie, w/325 Dodge hemi


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 11:39 AM - Post#1350141    
    In response to Jay_Hammond

Got it, but it isn't too clear in some spots.
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
Can you scan and email it?
Tom Parsons


 
Jay_Hammond 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1285

Loc: New Castle, De. USA
Reg: 07-27-00
01-24-08 11:57 AM - Post#1350147    
    In response to DZAUTO

will do. Jay
'57 150 270hp '57 Delray 283hp '57 Adobe Beige rag, 220hp, O.D, posi '57 Nomad 220hp, glide '36 Plymouth (oops) woodie, w/325 Dodge hemi


 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 12:25 PM - Post#1350160    
    In response to Jay_Hammond

  • Jay_Hammond Said:
will do. Jay



My home email is tparsons6@cox.net
Tom Parsons


 
283joe 
Member
Posts: 46

Reg: 04-21-03
01-24-08 05:30 PM - Post#1350355    
    In response to DZAUTO

maybe someone can make sense out of this gm bulletin dated may 24 1957

pz bulletin #57-143

to all chevrolet dealers

we are pleased to advise that fuel injection engines will now be available on regular models in limited quantities.



with regular camshafts

rpo 578-a-b-c-d ---------- standard or close ratio

j-k-l-m --------- powerglide

n-p-q-r --------- turboglide




with high lift camshafts



rpo 578-e-f-g-h ----------- standard or close ratio
only





this was sent by t.f. quinn zone distribution manager

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-24-08 09:14 PM - Post#1350543    
    In response to 283joe

a=150 2dr
b=150 4dr
c=150 Handyman wgn
d=150 2dr Utility (no back seat)
e=210 2dr
f=210 4dr
g=210 Handyman wgn
h=210 Delray 2dr
j=210 2dr Hdtp
k=210 4dr Townsman wgn
l=210 Beauville wgn (9pass)
m=210 4dr Hdtp
n=Belair 2dr Hdtp
p=Belair 2dr post
q=Belair 4dr post
r=Belair Conv
s=Nomad
v=SD

Mike Hunt came up with this info over 30yrs ago, and Ken Kayser has also provided the same information in his book.
There was also an RPO 578T for Belair 4dr wagon and 578U for Belair 4dr Hdtp, but neither of these two body styles, nor the c above (handyman wgn), were delivered with FI.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLL Chevy pass car FI options were RPO 578(letter), and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes with FI were RPO 579(letter).
Is this information accurate??? I don't know, BUT, as I mentioned, Ken Kayser came up with the same information that Mike Hunt uncovered over 30yrs ago, which shows consistancy.
What I DO KNOW is that The RPO 579A, B, C, B is for 4 different FI options on Corvettes and the Corvette is only ONE body style. Thus, four FI options pretty well covers the Vette for 57.
And, since there are MULTIPLE possible combinations for FI on the pass cars, then the RPO 578A-V, which appears to corrospond to multiple pass car bodies, seems to be completely logical.
Tom Parsons


 
283joe 
Member
Posts: 46

Reg: 04-21-03
01-25-08 06:06 AM - Post#1350684    
    In response to DZAUTO

Thanks for the explanation Tom

 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
01-25-08 09:47 AM - Post#1350839    
    In response to DZAUTO

Whoops, there is a typo above,

  • DZAUTO Said:

------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- --The RPO 579A, B, C, B ------------------------- ------------------------- ------------------------- ---------



Is SUPPOSED to be----------------------- ---------- RPO 579A, B, C, D------------------------- ---------------
Sorry about that.
Tom Parsons


 
4dr 57 
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3316
4dr 57
Loc: The Texas Hill Country
Reg: 11-10-04
02-01-08 06:16 PM - Post#1356372    
    In response to DZAUTO

This is definately some great info!

How many years are spanned in these replys one can only guess. Thanks Guys


There weren't any pics of the 56 PP heads posted. Could this mean they are rare items?

Could they be scarcer than the fuel injection units that followed?



The trouble is you think you have time - Buddha




 
DZAUTO 
Senior Member
Posts: 7501

Loc: Mustang, OK, USA
Reg: 12-25-99
02-01-08 06:52 PM - Post#1356402    
    In response to 4dr 57

I'll see if I can locate a picture of a 56PP head.
The 57 FI heads were basically as common as dirt, because it was the SAME head used on 57 pass car 283 power pack (4bl carb) engines. And that was a VERY common engine, probably the MOST common engine in the 57 Bel Air series.
Tom Parsons


 
f.i.57chevynut 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1405
f.i.57chevynut
Loc: Granada Hills, CA
Reg: 03-04-09
02-03-14 12:19 AM - Post#2423103    
    In response to DZAUTO

  • DZAUTO Said:
a=150 2dr
b=150 4dr
c=150 Handyman wgn
d=150 2dr Utility (no back seat)
e=210 2dr
f=210 4dr
g=210 Handyman wgn
h=210 Delray 2dr
j=210 2dr Hdtp
k=210 4dr Townsman wgn
l=210 Beauville wgn (9pass)
m=210 4dr Hdtp
n=Belair 2dr Hdtp
p=Belair 2dr post
q=Belair 4dr post
r=Belair Conv
s=Nomad
v=SD

Mike Hunt came up with this info over 30yrs ago, and Ken Kayser has also provided the same information in his book.
There was also an RPO 578T for Belair 4dr wagon and 578U for Belair 4dr Hdtp, but neither of these two body styles, nor the c above (handyman wgn), were delivered with FI.
ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL LLL Chevy pass car FI options were RPO 578(letter), and ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Corvettes with FI were RPO 579(letter).
Is this information accurate??? I don't know, BUT, as I mentioned, Ken Kayser came up with the same information that Mike Hunt uncovered over 30yrs ago, which shows consistancy.
What I DO KNOW is that The RPO 579A, B, C, B is for 4 different FI options on Corvettes and the Corvette is only ONE body style. Thus, four FI options pretty well covers the Vette for 57.
And, since there are MULTIPLE possible combinations for FI on the pass cars, then the RPO 578A-V, which appears to corrospond to multiple pass car bodies, seems to be completely logical.



I recently read a post that referred to this topic and read the whole thing. I need to chime in on some of this info. I owned a 57 Bel Air 4 door wagon that I bought from a wrecking yard in Del Norte, Colorado, in 1980. I took the surviving FI parts off the car before I sold it to a buddy who subsequently passed away and the car was sold to a hot rodder so it's gone, but I have the throttle arm on the firewall and the left side radiator filler panel with the grommet for the 2 hoses that go to the Electrovac and the screw pattern for the mounting bracket. As for the Bel Air 4 door hardtop, My buddy drove one in 1967, for sale on a used car lot, appearing to be a demonstrator car with every option but AC because that wasn't offered on FI cars. Naturally the unit was missing but the rest was there. Dick Stelk, from Colorado(now deceased) had a 57 Bel Air 4 door hardtop FI car. He told my friend Bob Drennan(now deceased) that the Chevy dealership in Denver area that the local hotel ordered 2 57 Bel Air 4 door wagons. I believe I had one of those. Now as far as the 150 wagon, here are pictures that my buddy up in Northern California took in 71 or 72. It was purchased new by Ed Brown, a known circle track racer in the area. He towed his racecar with it. He even installed a hydramatic. The car ended up with Jimmy Arroyo and another guy who restored it and sold it and I lost track of it.





Tom Ordway tom@57chevys.com If you don't drive it, why have it?
http://www.americantorque.com/page/0/139/


 
Highlander1 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1412

Loc: SE North Carolina
Reg: 08-19-04
02-03-14 10:06 PM - Post#2423387    
    In response to f.i.57chevynut

Wow, you never now what treasures you will find here!

Tom, what was the rush?

 
f.i.57chevynut 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1405
f.i.57chevynut
Loc: Granada Hills, CA
Reg: 03-04-09
02-03-14 11:59 PM - Post#2423407    
    In response to Highlander1

I wasn't on the forum until a couple years ago. There was another post that referred to that posting and I read the whole thing and felt the need to reply. It really should have its own thread.
Tom Ordway tom@57chevys.com If you don't drive it, why have it?
http://www.americantorque.com/page/0/139/


 
sidworks 
Senior Member
Posts: 2812
sidworks
Age: 69
Loc: Sidney, B.C.
Reg: 12-03-05
05-04-14 06:39 PM - Post#2450061    
    In response to f.i.57chevynut

is there some one that can please give me some info on these heads. was looking at a couple of engs tonight and these were sitting on a 327

ron
64 GMC 4x4 1/2t panel
http://s908.photobucket.com/albums/ac281/padresag /...
http://s908.beta.photobucket.com/user/padresag/lib...
http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?156542-...


 
f.i.57chevynut 
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 1405
f.i.57chevynut
Loc: Granada Hills, CA
Reg: 03-04-09
05-04-14 10:55 PM - Post#2450115    
    In response to sidworks

It looks like a 210 hp 327 head that was on a 1967 Camaro I had about 30 years ago. The number is 775 if I recall correctly. What is the casting date?
Tom Ordway tom@57chevys.com If you don't drive it, why have it?
http://www.americantorque.com/page/0/139/


 
56sedandelivery 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 3320

Age: 62
Loc: Everett, Wa.
Reg: 02-26-08
05-05-14 01:53 AM - Post#2450125    
    In response to f.i.57chevynut

Some 20 plus years ago, I bought one of my 4.88 Positraction 3rd members from a guy who had just bought a basket case 56 Vette out of British Columbia, Canada. He was going to "Pro Street" the car, and was getting rid of EVERYTHING he did't think he'd need. Hence the 4.88 Posi I got for $200.00! He tried to get me to buy the heads he had, they had the twin towers marking I'd never seen before, and at the time, I did't know what they were. Then, I think it was POPULAR HOT RODDING MAGAZINE who did an article on SBC heads, the casting numbers to look for in the "good" heads, and the cast in markings at the front/rear. It had been a few weeks since I bought the 3rd member. I quickly call the guy, who told me he had tossed them into a hulk he was having hauled away to add weight, since no one seemed to want them!!! I was two days late! Fast forward to the present. As I understand it, there were TWO dual quad setups in 56; the 225hp "early" version, and the 245 HP "late" that came in around Feb. 1956 (??? on actual date). The same early dual heads are the same as the single 4 barrel heads. I have the dual point distributor, and TWO early dual quad intakes, along with 6 WCFB carbs to "clone". I had bought a pair of the #5603 heads, and had extensive work done on them; all new valves, springs/retainers and setup, guides, umbrella seals, (intakes stepped up to 1.84)surfaced, and they already had screw in studs (Not the shouldered type), and my machinist CC'd the chambers equally. I also have a pair of staggered bolt pattern Vette valve covers, and a rare pair of M/T staggered bolt pattern valve covers. What's "odd" about those, is they have "327" cast on the inside (???). WHAT is the difference in the pistons, 225 HP VS 245 HP, as well as the camshaft? Hopefully, one or both of the "TWO TOM'S", or Gene Schnider can give me the correct info, as I've gotten confused, and there's nothing in this thread about that. My 1959 edition MOTORS MANUAL does't have that info, at least in regards to the "early" top end 265's. So guys????????can you set me up? I thought there had been a thread here that was actually copies of the Chevrolet Service Bulletins, and the search function does't seem to work right for me. There you go, Butch/56sedandelivery.

This entire top end is going to go onto a .030 over 283, with all forged rotating assembly that's been balanced; it includes a set of 2 valve relief forged pistons, and aftermarket rods. All this, because at the time, I could't find a good 265 short block to work with. It's going to find it's way into the Delivery, along with one of my own, built Powerglides/5000 stall converters, set up as a foot brake for the drags. The rear end is already 4.88 Positraction and Yukon axles. Sort of what I call a pseudo Junior Stocker car. Sorry, I kinda got carried away here with my post/questions.



Edited by 56sedandelivery on 05-05-14 01:59 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
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