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Username Post: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP        (Topic#143797)
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
11-06-06 11:27 AM - Post#1030094    

CAN ANYONY HELP WITH INFO ON SWAPING TO A CAMARO/TRANS-AM T5 FOR THE OVERDIVE ? LIKE WILL THE BELL HOUSING'S ENTECHANGE? IS A SPACER/ADAPTER PLATE NEEDED, CLUTCH LINKAGE THAT KIND OF TUFF. I HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT THE 83-84 STILL USED A CABLE SPEEDO AND ARE 26 SPLINE INPUT .I HAVE A 10.5 CENTERFORCE NOW AND 4 SPEED IN THE CAR NOW .ANY HELP WOULD BE GREAT , THANKS

 
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Big T 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2371

Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-06-06 12:25 PM - Post#1030095    
    In response to hookers1955

What car are you putting it in?? I just put a 92 Camaro with a OEM hydraulic clutch on the back of my create 350
Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 16905

Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-06-06 07:31 PM - Post#1030096    
    In response to hookers1955

The Camaro T-5 needs some mods before you can use it in a tri-five. However, the route you need to take depends on whether you have bench or bucket seats, so which do you have?

Ray
Live more lightly on the planet. Eat lower on the food chain. Eat vegetarians.


 
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-07-06 01:05 AM - Post#1030097    
    In response to raycow

right now i have bucket seats .i assume the shifter will be located a little futher bach than where the 4 spd is now .

 
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-07-06 01:08 AM - Post#1030098    
    In response to Big T

i have a 2 door 55 hardtop mild 350 4spd with bucket seats . your seatup sounds interesting would like to know more if you could help . thanks

 
SAM_57 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 2945
SAM_57
Loc: Hampton, VA USA
Reg: 06-20-01
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-07-06 03:36 AM - Post#1030099    
    In response to hookers1955

The shifter location is further back than the 4-speed. You may be able to fab a new shifter to work in the 4-speed location, but haven't gotten that far on mine.

You can use the stock '55 bell housing and clutch linckage, but the rear crossmember is at an 18* angle as the Camaro bell housing is made this way. You will need to make sure that the flywheel is centered in the bell housing, this can be done with an indicator and offset dowel pins.

Drive shaft will need to be shortened.

The 26 splines are on most v-8 world class transmissions. The world class is the stronger tranny and contains ATF. This is what you want to get. The clutch disc you have now will not work, but the flywheel and pressure plate will.

The bolt holes, tranny to bell housing, in the transmission are metric and will need to be drilled out for the bolts to fit.

You may be able to use the stock bell housing, camaro, but I'm not 100% on that. I think that the 83-92 transmissions have cable drive for the speedometer. The 88-92's will be WC. Some have used a McLeod blow proof bell that will allow you to rotate the transmission 18* and not have to modify the rear cross member, but this will require a new starter.

Next?
S.Pollard 57 Belair sport coupe 69 C/10 stepside (wife's) 84 Monte Carlo SS


 
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-07-06 02:04 PM - Post#1030100    
    In response to SAM_57

SAM . WELL THANKS AND I'M SURE I'LL BE TALKING TO YOU MORE ON THIS . BY THE WAY. I JUST LOOKED AT YOUR CAR AND I'VE PARKED BESIDE YOU A FEW TIMES AT THE HANG-OUTS .LOL WHAT A SMALL WORLD . ANYWAY I'LL HAVE MORE QUESTION SOON. THANKS

 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 16905

Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-07-06 05:38 PM - Post#1030101    
    In response to hookers1955

Quote:

right now i have bucket seats



This saves you the work of having to change the tail housing for shifter clearance. Definitely try for one with a mechanical speedo drive and save yourself some more work there. You will still be left with some hard choices concerning the bellhousing:

1. Stock tri-five bell. This is the cheapest and lets you keep your stock clutch linkage, rear mounts, flywheel and starter. However, you will need to cobble the shifter so it points straight up. I don't know if anyone sells bolt-on parts to do this.

2. Stock Camaro bell. This takes care of the shift linkage problem. You will need side mounts on the engine and a rear crossmember if you don't already have them. You will also have to change your flywheel and starter if you were using a tri-five bell before. Biggest challenge is the clutch linkage. Most people go hydraulic.

3. Aftermarket bell/scattershield (McLeod, Lakewood, etc.). This can deal with all of the shift linkage, clutch linkage, and mount issues if you get the right one. You might still have to change the starter. Major downside is cost.

Ray
Live more lightly on the planet. Eat lower on the food chain. Eat vegetarians.


 
Big T 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2371

Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-07-06 07:12 PM - Post#1030102    
    In response to hookers1955

Hookers
Just went thru all of this.
It you want to move the shifter up about 4 to 5 inches, giving you the option of going either bucket or bench, you will need to put a S-10 rear housing, shift rails and main shaft to move the mech speedo gear forward.
I had this all done by a transmission house in Van Nuys using "used" but inspected parts for $75.00/ By the way you can have a S-10 tail housing with a electronic output, but that output sits fruther back on the housing. If you go this way, be sure know what you are getting.

The next issue is rolling the trans 18 degrees to starboard (passanger side) to center 3 and 4 gear in the vertical position. The s-10 has the same 18 degrees on it's mounting flange. Works great with the trans, but not the bellhousing. There are several threads talking about how to roll the trans.
The option I decided on was to seperated the bell housing and trans, roll the trans 18 degrees. Two of the flanges end up hanging in the air and the other two require new drill and tap holes. The two airborne flanges will sit on a welded on standoff/spacer.
Mine is in the shop now having that done. It isn't pretty but it is 100 percent functional and in expensive.

If it is important to you that it look more "engineered" you are going to have to search the past posts on CT.

IF you are using a hydrulic clutch. Let me know. I had to go thru a retro on that as well

Some good suggestion where made in above posts. I have a 92 world class (WC) T-5. a little stronger than the non WC. Mine had a electronic output, but you can buy an adapter. Going to a Mcleod scater shield that will roll your trans is about $400+ if I recall. I had my trans rebuilt,modified . with resurfaced fly wheel and Luk clutch for $699 not including the ongoing flange mode which should not be more than $75.00. Food for thought.
Tom
Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 02:32 PM - Post#1030103    
    In response to Big T

wow this is sounding like a expenceive swap.! do you think you'll be taking any pictures of the swap as you go along? or does anyone know if any one else has ? i'm learning alot here and still have a long ways to go i see . thanks and i hope to ask more questions .

 
Big T 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2371

Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 03:34 PM - Post#1030104    
    In response to hookers1955

Hi Hookers
As soon as I get the trans back, which should be over the weekend, I will take pictures of everything I have talked about. IF your don't rebuild your trans, and go the route I have, you will knock $400.00 out of the rebuilt cost and another $75 for the rear housing. Worse case if you do nothing to the T5, you will have to live with the trans roll 18 degrees to port, stick with buckets but you can have your shifter top end reworked and re chromed to compensate for the 18 degrees.

To me the trans is worth it just for the mpg savings 5th gear offers in a otherwise gas hog engine.
Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
judd55 
Member
Posts: 341
judd55
Loc: British Columbia
Reg: 07-04-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 04:37 PM - Post#1030105    
    In response to Big T

Am I missing something here, with the trans roll issue, I have a T5 with S10 tailshaft ready to go (not installed yet) and the shifter location appears to be straight up and down in relation to the front ear mounts. Is it not the Camaro/Firebird bell housing that roles the Trany some degrees towards the driver, for whatever tunnel clearance and or console issues there might be.

If you use the stock 55 bell, the shifter should remain vertical, although the cross member mount on the Camaro tailshaft may be the issue and be at an angle now. Correct me if I'm wrong, I needs to know.
55 Ponch
55 GMC
55 Wife


 
Rick_L 
Honored Member
Posts: 25456

Loc: Katy, Tx, USA
Reg: 07-06-00
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 05:06 PM - Post#1030106    
    In response to judd55

Judd55, as I read your post you understand it.

Sometimes this stuff make your head swim (mine too).

 
judd55 
Member
Posts: 341
judd55
Loc: British Columbia
Reg: 07-04-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 05:13 PM - Post#1030107    
    In response to Rick_L

Yup, I've already had to deal with switching from an electronic speedo to a gear drive, that was a major PITA. I didn't need any bell housing, cross member issues on top of it.

Thanx
55 Ponch
55 GMC
55 Wife


 
Big T 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2371

Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 05:25 PM - Post#1030108    
    In response to judd55

Hi Judd
Your right on. I bought the trans, bellhouse, starter, brake and cluch pedels, pressure plate/clutch, inspection/mud plate, shifter and complete hydraulic master and slave out of a 92 Camaro. Wanted to keep the hydraulics and found it impossiable to find a standard bell housing with a slave cyl bracket that was as big as the slave. Every one I found was undersize.

Reflecting back, I guess I could have had the slave mounting bracket switch. Hind sight.

Fortunatly no one will see what I did unless I run over them.
Tom
Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
Henrys57wagon 
Canadian Regional Coordinator &"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 3063
Henrys57wagon
Age: 64
Loc: Woodlawn, (Ottawa) On. Ca...
Reg: 04-15-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 06:14 PM - Post#1030109    
    In response to Big T

When I first put my setup together I used an s10 5sp and installed it on a stock V8 bellhousing not knowing that they are at an 18deg angle, so I fabed an 18deg tail shaft adaptor to have the trans mount straight up. This way the shifter is straight up and on the right position. I took every thing out and installed a 5sp tremic. I still have the adaptor lying around. Henry
57 B/A wagon, 408"BB with 14' Bonair travel trailer,71 Nova 355"SB, 07 2500HD with 26 Prowler 5th wheel, 09 Impala LT, John Deere lawn tractor, MF 2610 tractor
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judd55 
Member
Posts: 341
judd55
Loc: British Columbia
Reg: 07-04-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-08-06 06:17 PM - Post#1030110    
    In response to Big T

Ahh, that makes sense, Thanx Big T.....I'm staying with the standard clutch set up and am not so worried about the crossmember issue either, as I am staying with the stock bell and rear mounts, so I believe I can get away with hangin the T5 out there without one like the ole 3 Spd it'll replace.

Hope this helps to clear things up a little more for Hookers1955 as well.
55 Ponch
55 GMC
55 Wife


 
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-09-06 01:11 AM - Post#1030111    
    In response to Big T

Thanks look forward to the pics. another thing i have is the daytona digital dash , can you use the 92 transmission as you have without having to swap out tail shafts? i can't find the book that came with it so i was just wondering if it was possible to wire it up sense it was electronic . anyone know ?

 
Big T 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2371

Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-09-06 11:59 AM - Post#1030112    
    In response to hookers1955

Hi Hooker

I am also using the Dakota Digital. They are set up to go electronic or mechanical input from the trans. If your trans winds up being mechanical, ask for their mech/electronic pulse generator/adapter. Their system runs on 8000 ppm (pulses per min) When I had the S10 rear housing put on,I had a choice to go either way with the output signal (electronic or mechanical) I wanted mechanical so that if for any reason in the future I wanted to go back to the original dash cluster, it would be easy to do. Dump the pulse gtenerator and plug into the speedo cable.
Tom
Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 16905

Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-09-06 09:10 PM - Post#1030113    
    In response to judd55

I think quite a bit of confusion about the T-5 variants has arisen here, and the lack of pictures isn't helping any.

Starting with the complete S-10 transmisson, this one is totally straight up. That is, if you mount it on a stock tri-five bellhousing, the shifter will be vertical and the pad for the rear mount will be parallel to the gtound.

The Camaro version is the odd one. It's main case is the same as the S-10, but its tailhousing orients both the shifter and the rear mount at an 18º angle with respect to the mounting ears on the main case. The reason this is fine in a Camaro is that the stock Camaro bellhousing mounts the entire transmission at an 18º angle so that everything on the tailhousing comes out right.

When you install a complete Camaro transmission in a tri-five you need to maintain the 18º mounting angle if you want the shifter and the rear mount, if you are using it, to point in the right direction. One way to do this is to use the Camaro bell, but this creates problems if you want to use the stock tri-five clutch linkage. Another way is to use an aftermarket bell which will accommodate the stock clutch linkage and also the stock bellhousing mounts if you want to use them. Lastly, you can use a tri-five bell, but then you have to bend the shifter so it is vertical. You will also need to figure out a way to deal with the angle on the tailhousing mount if you want to use that instead of the bellhousing mounts.

When you put an S-10 tailhousing on a Camaro transmission you have effectively built an S-10 transmission from the mounting standpoint. This means you can bolt the hybrid assembly to a stock tri-five (or any other "straight up") bellhousing and your problems go away.

I am still hoping someone can post a pic of a stock Camaro bellhousing and also side by side pics of the two tailhousings, which will probably explain everything better than a lot of words.

Ray
Live more lightly on the planet. Eat lower on the food chain. Eat vegetarians.


 
Henrys57wagon 
Canadian Regional Coordinator &"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
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Henrys57wagon
Age: 64
Loc: Woodlawn, (Ottawa) On. Ca...
Reg: 04-15-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-10-06 03:50 AM - Post#1030114    
    In response to raycow

A few times it has been said that only Camaros and FB's have 18deg transmissions.I installed a 5sp out of an S series puickup in my 57 and it had the tailshaft rear pad at an 18 degree angle when installed on a regular bellhousing. I made an adapter between the transmission and the crossmember to have it installed straight up. Did the S15's use the same 5sp as the S10's? Henry
57 B/A wagon, 408"BB with 14' Bonair travel trailer,71 Nova 355"SB, 07 2500HD with 26 Prowler 5th wheel, 09 Impala LT, John Deere lawn tractor, MF 2610 tractor
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Thadd 
"11th Year" Gold Supporting Member
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Thadd
Age: 74
Loc: Rolling Hills, Ca,
Reg: 12-30-01
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
11-13-06 11:29 AM - Post#1030115    
    In response to Henrys57wagon

Ray: good concise description, but you left out my favorite option.
I used a McLeod bellhousing which rotates the Firebird/Camaro transmission 18º. The McLeod will also allow mounting any GM pattern stick "straight up" also. This took care of my shifter angle problem, and allows me to use the stock rear motor mount with my Williams rear crossmember. (The crossmember has a driveshft loop which I had to modify to clear the T-5. I think Earl has changed the way that he mounts them now)
I started with a 6 cylinder trans that had a 14 spline input and a straight up shifter bolted to the stock 55 bellhousing. With my broken down old tired 350, it worked fairly well, but the 3.25:1 first was awfully low.
I found a fresh world class and jumped on it. I modified the shifter stub so I could bolt my Hurst Handle to it. I also feel lucky that I was able to find the McLeod so easily and for such a good price.
I am going to take the T-5 out of my 55 and replace it with a Stage 3 BowTie Overdrive 700R4 I have acquired. I love my 5 speed, but when I jump in the throttle, I continually worry about that 330 ft lb torque rating. When the supercharger boost comes on, things start happening pretty fast, and I am scared to death that I am going to break something.
As a result, I drive like grand pa, and don't really enjoy the big horsepower that I have on tap.
I figure that with the automatic and a lock up converter, I will be able to stab it and steer and not worry about watching the tach, the boost guage, the rear view mirror and the outside world rushing towards me all at the same time.
So I will have available a complete set up including the mcleod scatteshield, the clutch linkage, the Z bar and its mounts, and the Speed Direct clutch rod set up that is made of aluminum tubing and heim joints. Trouble is that the speed at which my projects move, I don't know when I will get around to making the swap. I still need to get a converter and a shifter, not to mention the TV cable setup and a dipstick. I have been trying to get around to swaping my new ignition set up in since May, and that is probably a three hour job; lord knows when the trans thing will happen
Proud member of the BABY BLUE T-SHIRT BROTHERHOOD


 
hookers1955 
Member
Posts: 12

Reg: 10-07-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
12-03-06 05:05 PM - Post#1030116    
    In response to Thadd

hello again, just wanted to ask if you have a price for your t-5 setup when you do swap it out ? this can give me some idea on how much i'd need to come up with .thanks again and hope i'm not bothing you by asking .Marvin

 
uglydukwling 
Member
Posts: 17

Reg: 03-17-03
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
12-09-06 03:35 PM - Post#1030117    
    In response to raycow

I'm also putting a Camaro T-5 in a '55. I thought the only reason for changing to an S-10 tailhousing was to move the shifter forward. It seemed to be more trouble than it was worth since it also means relocating the speedometer drive. However, if it also takes care of the rear mount problem, maybe it is worth it. One other consideration is that with the transmission mounted at an angle, the oil level hole is too low, but adding an elbow should bring it up to the right height.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the relative merits of using the original bell housing mounts vs. the transmission mounts (or both)?

Was there ever a version of the T-5 that used a top-mounted shifter (directly on top of the transmission, that is, rather than on the tailhousing)? If one exists, it might be another way of moving the shifter forward to clear a bench seat without introducing speedomter drive problems.

 
HAL_396 
Member
Posts: 2880
HAL_396
Loc: Austin, TX
Reg: 11-16-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
12-09-06 04:25 PM - Post#1030118    
    In response to uglydukwling

Quote:

Does anybody have any thoughts on the relative merits of using the original bell housing mounts vs. the transmission mounts (or both)?




I used the original bell housing and custom made a cross member. I suppose I didn't have to do that but I thought it would be neat. I bought a Hurst shifter, heated and bent it straight.

Had to change clutch, use a different yoke, and shorten the drive shaft. It was pretty easy.
1955 Chevy Custom
1966 Biscayne
1966 Caprice Drag Car Inwork
1966 Caprice parts car
2004 Silverado
2007 Impala LS
2009 G5


 
Big T 
"8th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 2371

Loc: Simi Valley CA
Reg: 04-14-06
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
12-09-06 04:42 PM - Post#1030119    
    In response to Henrys57wagon

here is a pic of what I did to get around the cost of McLeod scatter shield, or running around trying to find a bell housing that would work.

I rotated the trans 18* starboard, centering everything up and had a couple of mounting ears welded on and all the new holes redrilled.
[image][/image]
Tom

55 4 door BelAir


 
raycow 
Honored Member
Posts: 16905

Loc: San Francisco, CA
Reg: 11-26-02
Re: GM T5 TRANSMISSION SWAP
12-11-06 12:41 PM - Post#1030120    
    In response to uglydukwling

Quote:

I thought the only reason for changing to an S-10 tailhousing was to move the shifter forward.



It not only moves the shifter forward, but also lets it point "straight up" when you are using a non-Camaro bellhousing (assuming you use the S-10 shifter).

Quote:

Does anybody have any thoughts on the relative merits of using the original bell housing mounts vs. the transmission mounts (or both)?



If you are keeping the stock tri-five front engine mounts you MUST use the bellhousing mounts. If you have side mounts on the engine you can use either the bellhousing mounts or a single mount on the tranny tailhousing. Some people use both, but it's not really necessary.

Quote:

Was there ever a version of the T-5 that used a top-mounted shifter (directly on top of the transmission, that is, rather than on the tailhousing)?



Not that I am aware of. The S-10 version has the farthest forward shifter mount. There was a version with an offset shifter used in the Astro vans, but you probably wouldn't want to mess with that one. If you are concerned about modifying the speedo drive, it really isn't all that difficult.

Ray
Live more lightly on the planet. Eat lower on the food chain. Eat vegetarians.


 
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