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Username Post: Manual transmission fluid????        (Topic#122134)
firedog561 
Member
Posts: 13

Reg: 08-02-04
01-21-06 01:21 PM - Post#858653    

Hi,
I have an 88 chevy fullsize p/u.(new body style)4x4 5.7 with a manual 5spd transmission. I want to change the fluid but don't know what kind to put in it. Any help would be appreciated.

 
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Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 3014

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-21-06 01:34 PM - Post#858654    
    In response to firedog561

The fluid application chart I have shows:
HM-290/5LM60 5-speed manual transmission - Manual transmission fluid P/N 1052931

This fluid is similar to 5W-30 motor oil. Do not put 80W-90 in there.

 
elcamino 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4990
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-22-06 03:56 AM - Post#858655    
    In response to firedog561

Syncromesh fluid like THIS



1988 CHEVROLET TRUCKS K1500 4WD PICKUP 5.7L 8-cyl VIN Code K
CAPACITIES
Engine, without filter..........4.0 quarts[1]
Cooling System, with AC Initial Fill..........18.0 quarts
Cooling System, W/O AC Initial Fill..........17.0 quarts
Automatic Transmission, THM350 Initial Fill..........3.5 quarts[2]
Automatic Transmission, THM400, 75 Initial Fill..........4.3 quarts[2]
Automatic Transmission, THM700R4 Initial Fill..........5.0 quarts[2]
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
3 speed THM350..........10.0 quarts
3 speed THM400, 75..........11.0 quarts
4 speed THM700R-4..........12.0 quarts
Manual Transmission, Muncie (5-SPD)..........4.0 pints
Manual Transmission, NV4500 (TOPC)..........8.0 pints[3]
Manual Transmission, 4-SPD..........8.4 pints
Differential, Front..........3.6 pints
Differential, with 8.5, 8.6 ring gear Rear..........4.2 pints
Differential, with 9.5 ring gear Rear..........5.5 pints
Differential, with 10.5 ring gear EX Dana Rear..........7.2 pints
Transfer Case,BW1370/4401..........3.2 pints[4]
Transfer Case,BW4470..........3.2 pints[4]
Transfer Case,NP241/243..........4.4 pints[4]
Transfer Case,NP208..........10.0 pints[4]
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L


 
BBC-454 
Senior Member
Posts: 1400
BBC-454
Loc: Edmonton, Alberta
Reg: 05-11-03
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-22-06 09:51 PM - Post#858656    
    In response to elcamino

Quote:


Manual Transmission, Muncie (5-SPD)..........4.0 pints
Manual Transmission, NV4500 (TOPC)..........8.0 pints[3]





Wasent the 5 speed for that year a getrag?? Or am I mistaken?
Josh R.L.
Licensed Automotive Mechanic
1966 Buick Special 2 door
1961 Chevrolet Apache 10 panel van
1995 GMC K2500
2011 VW Jetta TDI


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 3014

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-23-06 09:07 AM - Post#858657    
    In response to BBC-454

Quote:

Quote:


Manual Transmission, Muncie (5-SPD)..........4.0 pints
Manual Transmission, NV4500 (TOPC)..........8.0 pints[3]





Wasent the 5 speed for that year a getrag?? Or am I mistaken?




I have seen many names referring to the same basic transmission - Getrag, HM290, 5LM60, NV3500

NV stands for New Venture Gear.

When I received training at the GM training center in Minneapolis in 1991 on this transmission. The training manual (which I still have) refers to it as a 5LM60 Formerly HM-290. At that time I was told the transmission was currently being built by New Venture gear and New Venture Gear is a joint venture between GM (Muncie transmission) and Chrysler (New Process Gear).

Not all these transmissions are equal.
There are two designs for the input shaft and input shaft bearings. The first design 1988-1990 had a ball bearing and a roller bearing behind it on the input shaft. The second design only has a ball bearing but it was a much larger bearing. The first design bearings often fail. They were failing when these trucks were under warranty with very low miles on them.


RE: firedog561 & my earlier reply
The fluid applications chart I got from GM dated 5-1-89 shows:
HM-290/5LM60 5-speed manual transmission - Manual transmission fluid P/N 1052931

The fluid applications chart I got from GM dated 2-1-92 shows:
HM-290/5LM60 5-speed manual transmission - Synchromesh transmission fluid P/N 12345349

 
sp00n 
Senior Member
Posts: 125
sp00n
Loc: Huntsville Alabama
Reg: 11-25-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-23-06 07:12 PM - Post#858658    
    In response to elcamino

Where can I find the synchromesh stuff? I went to Advanced Auto Hell today, and they not only had never heard of it, but when I asked what would they suggest, he told me to put some freakin 5w30 motor oil in there

Right now I'm cutting corners with automatic trans fluid, just because I can't seem to find the correct stuff to put in it. Gear oil make a good substitute?
1992 Chevy Silverado 1500 Stepside 4.3L V6 5spd Mostly stock.


 
elcamino 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4990
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-24-06 07:34 AM - Post#858659    
    In response to sp00n

GM dealers is the best shot or else order the Amsoil stuff..

GM dealers are likely to cost a lot more.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L


 
elcamino 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4990
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-24-06 07:36 AM - Post#858660    
    In response to BBC-454

You don't want anything by getrag.

They are suppling the rear axles for the Cadillac CTS and there is very high failure rate. The one is my new 2005 CTS had to be replaced at 2100 miles. Howled and whined so bad you would not beleive it. German junk..
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L


 
boogie 
Senior Member
Posts: 2143
boogie
Loc: Louisiana
Reg: 07-11-02
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-24-06 07:54 AM - Post#858661    
    In response to sp00n

Quote:

he told me to put some freakin 5w30 motor oil in there






Don't laugh,many transmission guys prefer using 10w30 engine oil in place of the syncromesh in this particular transmission. I myself have used Castrol 10w30 with no problems.
'85 GMC C1500 SWB 355 sbc


 
firedog561 
Member
Posts: 13

Reg: 08-02-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-27-06 03:56 PM - Post#858662    
    In response to firedog561

Thanks for the info. i ordered some of the Amsoil. i was reading about that premature bearing failure. mine is an 88 with 55k on it. in 3rd and 5th it makes a terrible noise. let off the gas and you don't hear it. could this be the bearing? how do you fix it? are there any shifter assembly problems?

thanks
jason

 
elcamino 
Valued Contributor
Posts: 4990
elcamino
Loc: Lake Superior-Michigan US...
Reg: 03-30-00
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-28-06 04:40 AM - Post#858663    
    In response to boogie

The problem you have to be concerned about with engine oil is possible corrosive effect on yellow metals, that are common in a manual trans and not in an engine. That is the reason for the special fluid other than engine oil.
Mike
2009 Cadillac CTS4 AWD Performance Sedan
2012 GMC Sierra AWD Denali 6.2L


 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 3014

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-28-06 06:30 AM - Post#858664    
    In response to firedog561

Quote:

i was reading about that premature bearing failure. mine is an 88 with 55k on it. in 3rd and 5th it makes a terrible noise. let off the gas and you don't hear it. could this be the bearing? how do you fix it?




Without taking it apart the best educated guess is: what you are describing is consistent with bearing failure. When the input bearing fails it can also be hard to shift or downshift into 4th gear at times.

The first design 1988-1990 had a ball bearing and a roller bearing behind it on the input shaft. The bearings are very expensive. Last one I did an estimate on, it was over 2 hundred just for the GM input bearing. The input shafts are different, from first design to second design, so you can’t put the better bearing in the earlier trans. Also if you take apart the main shaft, many of the parts cannot be reused, and you need an oven and melt sticks to heat the parts to the correct temp for reassembly.

There is a selective shim by the front bearing that controls the main shaft end play. When you replace the bearing you must check the end play. If there is negative end play it would be very hard on the bearings. The bearings on the back end of the main shaft are the same design as the input bearings. The second design has the better bearings on both ends.

This transmission is not one that I would suggest you try to repair. If you do you should get a manual for it, and read it, before you decide to open it. It is often less expensive to replace these transmissions then it is to rebuild them. Even in parts prices alone. It is hard to find good used ones.

In my opinion the first design transmissions are a problem waiting to happen.

 
camaro865 
Very Senior Member
Posts: 1192
camaro865
Loc: Massachusetts
Reg: 10-13-03
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-28-06 07:41 AM - Post#858665    
    In response to Chevytech

would synthetic 5w30 mobil one be better than the pensoil synchromesh??
03 silverado 1500 HD 6.0 4 door crew cab 4x4


 
firedog561 
Member
Posts: 13

Reg: 08-02-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-28-06 10:46 AM - Post#858666    
    In response to Chevytech

would the second design tranny bolt right up?

thanks for the info

 
Chevytech 
Subject Matter Expert - Senior Member
Posts: 3014

Loc: Twin Cities, Minnesota, U...
Reg: 04-25-04
Re: Manual transmission fluid????
01-28-06 11:29 AM - Post#858667    
    In response to firedog561

Quote:

would the second design tranny bolt right up?


Yes
When the second design transmissions became available and the trucks with a first design transmission had an input bearing failure, I was putting in second design transmissions in place of first design, under warranty. This speaks volumes.

Quote:

would synthetic 5w30 mobil one be better than the pensoil synchromesh??


Synchromesh fluid has additives that are not in motor oil, and I think it is better to use it. That being said there are transmissions that the correct fluid to use in them is 5W-30 motor oil and it would not worry me to see it in one of these 5LM60 transmissions.

 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1061
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
10-15-12 10:44 PM - Post#2280125    
    In response to Newman_00

Oh crap. this thread has me worried. I have a 90 k1500. Getrag I believe. It is a 4spd with overdrive.
It had 80w90 gearoil in it when I bought the truck 4 years ago and I have replaced the fluid annually with 80w90 gearoil.
Have I been doing it wrong? I have no manual for mine but have never had any problems either. I run gearoil in the transfer case and rear end as well.
I thought for sure the dealer told me it was ok on my year and that the syncromesh wasnt needed till later.
GM fan FOREVER


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25745
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
10-16-12 04:53 AM - Post#2280153    
    In response to rockfangd

Wow! 80w90 in that transmission and you can still shift? Have you positively ID'd the transmission model? The light duty 5 speeds call for GM Syncromesh, which is 5W30 with some special additives.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1061
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
10-16-12 10:36 AM - Post#2280240    
    In response to someotherguy

only time I ever had a problem was when my slave cylinder went out. I am afraid now if I put the right fluid in it it might go bad. I will need to look into this before I get it up and running again.
ACCORDING TO MY VIN RPOs
MG5 TRANSMISSION,MANUAL 5-SPEED(GETRAG) GETRAG 5-SPD M/TRANS(MG5)
MM5 TRANSMISSION,MANUAL 5-SPEED PROVISIONS(MERCHANDISING OPTION) 5-SPD M/TRANS PROVISIONS(MM5)
GM fan FOREVER


Edited by rockfangd on 10-16-12 10:42 AM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
ltlvt 
Senior Member
Posts: 1636

Age: 62
Loc: Wichita Falls Texas USA
Reg: 09-17-00
10-16-12 06:30 PM - Post#2280389    
    In response to rockfangd

The reason for the thinner oil is the thicker stuff will not get up to the bearings. I have seen many of these transmissions burned up using the heavier oil. It will also cause the aluminum shift forks to seize up on the shifting drums and you will loose the ability to get it in all 5 gears.
Runs like a Scalded Dog!!


 
rockfangd 
Gold Supporting Member
Posts: 1061
rockfangd
Age: 28
Loc: Utica ny
Reg: 04-13-10
10-16-12 09:46 PM - Post#2280432    
    In response to ltlvt

wow, I have never had any problem. I run 80w90 in both diffs, transfer case, and trans.
I called GM this morning and they told me their reference is outdated for my truck but the head told me what I am using sounds right for my trans. He also told me that if there was a problem with using the wrong fluid it should have showed before.
I still have to look into this more to be certain, but for now I guess I will leave it alone
GM fan FOREVER


 
jham0077 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 508

Loc: Greenville, Il.
Reg: 11-04-11
10-18-12 02:17 PM - Post#2280870    
    In response to rockfangd

When I bought my Tahoe it shifted kinda harsh with a little bearing noise. I changed the fluid before I drove it 400 miles home. I'm positive it had atf in it. I got syncromesh at Advance. But since then I've mixed a cocktail of syncromesh, 5w20, and a shot of Lucas oil. I got too much Lucas the first time and it didn't shift well when cold. It really quieted the noisy bearing too.
I'd be leary of 80/90 in an aluminium transfer case. I guess if your not driving cross country with it locked in it won't hurt it too bad, or maybe not at all.
Keep throwing money at it, it'll get better...
95 Tahoe 5.7 w/5 spd
Gone but not forgotten,
87 LWB 4x4 5.0 w/3 spd granny,
84 SWB 4x4 5.7 w/3 spd granny,
93 Full Size Blazer 5.7 w/5 spd,
97 Step-side Vortec w/5 spd.
I like shifting gears.


Edited by jham0077 on 10-18-12 02:22 PM. Reason for edit: No reason given.

 
Bigbluebeast 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 19

Loc: Western WA.
Reg: 07-26-10
10-19-12 10:16 AM - Post#2281145    
    In response to someotherguy

Richard & others,


Looks like this may be a good time to ask this question at this point.


My '88 Burb has the 3-speed manual w/Granny Low.

This thread has me wondering what fluid to use for that manual tranny, as well as what to use for the differential.

Is it still this same AMSOIL stuff ? I'm noting that this manual transmission fluid says "for syncromesh".


I recall a different thread cautioning to use the "syncromesh" only on a certain type differential, dependant upon whether it was "limited slip" or locking" (or something along those lines) ?

Maybe I have this confused with a different issue. I'm just wanting to get this right, so I don't use the wrong fluid in either my manual tranny, or possibly cause issues with my differential.


I'll search the forum on my own, to see if I can find the reference to the differential type, but would really like to know what fluid should be used in the 3-speed tranny on my 'Burb.

Also, would my '88 Burban have that earlier style and more problematic bearing as described here in this thread ?

It's always good to have knowledge of potential issues to watch out for, and to take any preventative measures such as making sure to use correct fluids as specified.


Looking forward to any clarifications.


- Steve
'88 Beast O'Burban, Scottsdale, 5.7L-TBI, 2WD, 3/4 Ton, 3-Speed Manual, plus/Granny Low.
2001 Malibu - yes, THAT gasket DID leak, Dex...
1982 FLHP Harley "Police Special" Shovel (That's NOT a leak, it's "MARKING" it's spot ! )


 
jham0077 
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts: 508

Loc: Greenville, Il.
Reg: 11-04-11
10-19-12 05:21 PM - Post#2281262    
    In response to Bigbluebeast

I never did anything to my 3spds and really don't recall what goes in them. I could tell you whats in it if I smelled it. But I've never heard of anything but gear oil on diffs. There are several weights though and some additives available for lockers and such. I've always used 80/90 in my diffs.
Keep throwing money at it, it'll get better...
95 Tahoe 5.7 w/5 spd
Gone but not forgotten,
87 LWB 4x4 5.0 w/3 spd granny,
84 SWB 4x4 5.7 w/3 spd granny,
93 Full Size Blazer 5.7 w/5 spd,
97 Step-side Vortec w/5 spd.
I like shifting gears.


 
someotherguy 
Moderator
Posts: 25745
someotherguy
Age: 44
Loc: Texas
Reg: 08-01-03
10-19-12 06:34 PM - Post#2281286    
    In response to jham0077

Yeah typically I would expect to be using 80W90 in most of the older transmissions like 3 speed manuals and granny 4 speeds, just to be conscious of GL4 vs. GL5 specifications because the GL5 has stuff that will attack the bronze in the synchros.

As far as syncromesh and differentials, definitely getting some discussions mixed up and confused there. Syncromesh is a gear oil for transmissions. You would use regular gear oil for a differential, viscosity and specification depending on model of course, and in the lockers that came in our trucks - NO additives! These are not posi or limited slip units, they are lockers, an Eaton unit called a Gov-Loc and it will actually cause problems to use friction-modifier type additives like you would use in a posi.

Richard
94 C2500LD / 97 Suburban LS1 / 06 300C SRT8
Check out my truck shop projects


 
Bigbluebeast 
Forum Newbie
Posts: 19

Loc: Western WA.
Reg: 07-26-10
10-22-12 10:50 AM - Post#2282043    
    In response to someotherguy

Thanks Richard/others.


I found the other thread in FAQ's regarding when to use/not use the fluid types for "Locker" vs "Posi", so yes, I was confusing a few topics.


As for my 3-spd w/Granny, sounds like 80w90 for both the diff & the tranny, with no additives ?


Reminder, this is the 'Burb that sat for 11 plus years, and it's only recently been put back on the road.


- Does having tranny & differential "not turning" for 11 years, degrade the fluid and/or cause any issues with the gears/diff ? I want to change fluid, and understandably, want to make sure it's right and up to date.

- How do I check for the GL4 vs. GL5 type diff ? I understand I need to make sure not to use the wrong type, so want to confirm type.


Related to using correct fluid, and assure getting it all the way up to bearings, the conversation earlier in this thread spoke of issues of hard shifting, etc.

I'm aware the thread started out discussing "5-speed manual" in p/ups. I read specific fluid products don't get all the way up to bearings within that manual tranny. Also mentioned is the "1st type" bearing vs a "better later-designed/larger bearing". Maybe this bearing issue is specific to only p/ups with 5-speed manual ?


- Would the '88 Burb possibly have the earlier bearing type as described earlier in this thread ?


I've always thought of the 3/4 ton 'Burb as somewhat similar to the p/u trucks of same year.


- How do I know what type of differential I have (Posi, Limited Slip, or Locker) ?


I'm fine going with straigt up 80w90 if that's all that's needed. However this mention of shifting issues, and getting proper lubrication to the bearings, has me wanting to double check to make sure 80w90 is the only fluid used in the '88 3-spd for the 'Burb.


- Steve
'88 Beast O'Burban, Scottsdale, 5.7L-TBI, 2WD, 3/4 Ton, 3-Speed Manual, plus/Granny Low.
2001 Malibu - yes, THAT gasket DID leak, Dex...
1982 FLHP Harley "Police Special" Shovel (That's NOT a leak, it's "MARKING" it's spot ! )


 
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