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Username Post: Please test your parking brake.
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
06-22-03 04:36 PM - Post#253310    

I am considering starting a class action lawsuit against GM and the Chevrolet Motor Division. It is my opinion that the Parking brake design is defective. It is a required safety item. It can't be relied upon to stop the vehicle in case the main brake system fails. It is impossible to tell when they will fail until they do because of their so called little lady design. Further GM knows of the early failure and is not issuing a recall.

How many owners have used and tested their parking brake?
How many owners have had to repair these?

Any thoughts?
jgrimmy
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1701
jgrimmy
06-22-03 10:06 PM - Post#253311    

I have had 3 99-03 Silverados and all worked fine, I haven't had to repair a single one in my service dept either.

Whats the problem you are having?

John
Service manager/advisor
Chevy dealer
Project Rust Bucket, 57 2dr HT Updated 10/16/06 1955 210 4 dr sdn 1953 210 4 dr sdn 05 Z71 Silverado

Akamatsu
Senior Member
Posts 110
06-24-03 10:27 AM - Post#253312    

In reply to:

How many owners have used and tested their parking brake?
How many owners have had to repair these?




I'll play on this level. I have an '00 that the parking brake does not work. May just need adjustment, I am awaiting some more information on another post in here.

Anonymous


06-24-03 12:32 PM - Post#253313    

I have a 00 GMC Ext Cab, and the emergency brake has never worked like it should. I've had it adjusted, but it will only last a couple months.
Razoo
Very Senior Member
Posts 1244
Razoo
06-24-03 12:40 PM - Post#253314    

Mine doesn't work well at all. With the engine running, and the trans in drive, with the E-brake fully applied, if I take my foot off the service brake, the truck creeps forward at about the same rate as without the e-brake applied.
Thanks,
Razoo.
A really swell guy from Warren Harding High!

Anonymous


06-24-03 01:51 PM - Post#253315    

I agree,
Mine hardly held when new and currently will easily role when applied. It's on my list for the never ending "warranty work" on the next service visit.
Cars/trucks will all have problems but my 2001 Z71 Sub takes the "Gold" for trips to the service dept. In the past 7 years besides GM vehicles, I have owned a Toyota 4-Runner, Nissan Maxima, and a Honda Civic Si - all from new. In 50K miles the 4w-drive Toyota went to the dealer twice, once for a minor warranty adjustment and the other a recall - both items fixed well and it never went back. The Maxima saw the dealer once for a minor rattle fix. And currently at exactly 49.5K miles my Civic Si has never seen nor required a service dept. None of these three vehicles ever had/have an engine noise, burned oil, vibrated, or had issues claimed to be "normal characteristics" like my current GM vehicles. This isn't hear-say, this is undeniable proof/truth. I love my Sub for what it is, and nothing "foreign" can compare, but all this makes me wish it was built/manufactured by you-know-who......

Come on GM, get your act together....

Smitty
Ponchonutty455SD
Senior Member
Posts 945
06-24-03 03:36 PM - Post#253316    

Your "foreign" cars ARE built in the USA!!! The Suburban is not!!!!!!!
2001 LS Ext. Cab 4x4 Indigo Blue Silverado 2002 Jeep Liberty Limited 4x4 Shale Green Met.

Squasher
Very Senior Member
Posts 1726
Squasher
06-24-03 05:29 PM - Post#253317    

Where is the Suburban made? My truck has a Union sticker from the U.S., but I can't remember which state
2001 GMC Sierra K1500 Z71 x/cab SLT 5.3L

Squasher
Very Senior Member
Posts 1726
Squasher
06-24-03 05:33 PM - Post#253318    

My parking brake doesn't work, but they wont fix it under warrenty . They say it's a "wear" item like tires, oil, shocks, etc
2001 GMC Sierra K1500 Z71 x/cab SLT 5.3L

BOWTIE_3
Senior Member
Posts 496
06-24-03 05:51 PM - Post#253319    

Many of the Tahoes and Suburbans are assembled in Mexico! Take a look on the end of the door and it will say where. That's why GM can sell them for ONLY $46,000-$48,000. Also all of the Avalanches are assembled in Mexico. It figures! Why is it that Japanese vehicles assembled in the US have a much higher quality-control record than the domestic vehicles assembled here? Oh that's right, they're NOT UAW members!
Anonymous


06-25-03 12:55 PM - Post#253320    

Poncho, you are correct - my sub was built in Mexico and most domestic purchased "Japanese" cars are built in the good old USA. Although, its not the place they are built that determines the quality. It comes down to the entire manufacturing, engineering, and quality "process", and these processes/procedures are mandated by the parenting company, in this case - from Japan etc. They may be built in the US but the way they are built ie quality control/product assurance is run/mandated by company members other than American directors,managers, or supervisors. The American production facilities run via Japanese "control", or the relationship would dissolve.
I also look at the fact that the issues I am experience with my Sub have nothing to do with who built it, but rather with the quality of the components/engineering its built with/from.....
Just my 2 cents.


Smitty

aservicemanager
Member
Posts 3
06-27-03 07:57 PM - Post#253321    

1st let me say hello. I have read posts here as a guest before, but untill now I had decided not ot post. My reason for reading is to make me better at my job by knowing what's going on.

OK, Y now ? Well, it's because of every service manager's biggest frustration. When customer's dont read their owner's manual, then blame the product when they either dont understand, or "it doesn't work like my..." (just insert whatever vehicle they used to drive). Believe me, frustrating is putting it mildly. Now, hold on, dont get mad, I know that most people dont read the assembly instructions on their Christmas gifts before they put them together...Be honest, how many of you have actually read the owner's manual ?

That leads us to the 1st source of confusion...the PARKing Brake is in no way, shape or form intended to be an EMERGENCY BRAKE like the deal that allowed Starsky and Hutch to do a Batman turn without changing lanes. Here is the 1st of several quotes from YOUR OWNERS MANUAL to hopefully help to clear things up...

In reply to:

Braking in Emergencies
With anti-lock, you can steer and brake at the same time. In many emergencies, steering can help you more than even the very best braking.






In reply to:

Parking Brake
To set the parking brake, hold the regular brake pedal down with your right foot. Push down the parking brake pedal with your left foot.

A chime will activate and the warning light will flash when the parking brake is applied and the vehicle is moving at least 3 mph (5 km/h) for at least three seconds.

To release the parking brake, hold the regular brake pedal down. Pull the bottom edge of the lever, located above the parking brake pedal, with the parking brake symbol, to release the parking brake.

If the ignition is on when the parking brake is released, the brake system warning light will go off.


Notice
Driving with the parking brake on can overheat the brake system and cause premature wear or damage to brake system parts. Verify that the parking brake is fully released and the brake warning light is off before driving.






I can tell U from personal experience that when I see p/u's with this concern, it usually stems from driving away with the park brake still aplied. It doesnt take much. The main function of the PARKing Brake is to take the pressure off of the Parking pawl inside the transmission that holds the vehicle in place when you shift into, that's right, PARK !

The parking brake's intent is not to keep your vehicle from rolling away, that's the transmission's job.

I hope this has been helpful insight, I promise it is not meant to be nasty or insulting.

Sincerely,

a Chevy dealer Service Manager !
jgrimmy
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1701
jgrimmy
06-27-03 09:34 PM - Post#253322    

Very very well put.

John
Service manager/advisor
Chevy dealer
Project Rust Bucket, 57 2dr HT Updated 10/16/06 1955 210 4 dr sdn 1953 210 4 dr sdn 05 Z71 Silverado

John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
06-28-03 03:45 AM - Post#253323    

In reply to:

The parking brake's intent is not to keep your vehicle from rolling away, that's the transmission's job.




First, welcome to ChevyTalk! Don't take this wrong, but if the parking brake isn't designed to keep your truck from rolling away - what is it there for? If putting the tranny in "Park" is the only thing designed to keep the truck from rolling away - what is the PARKing brake for? To beep when the truck's going 3 mph??? For who? Who's in the truck?

The frustration goes both ways.

Again, welcome to Chevytalk.

1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

aservicemanager
Member
Posts 3
06-28-03 07:59 AM - Post#253324    

Basically, the parking pawl is a 1/2" thick "L" shaped arm that is engaged into a large outer sprocket on a gear in the trans. If you park on a hill, ALL of the weight of the vehicle, intensified by God's gift of gravity, is on that poor little parking pawl. The park brake just helps reduce the pressure on that part.

I had many customers on several different model lines comment that the vehicle shakes or idles very rough when shifted to park on a slight incline/decline. I have actually taken these customer to a small hill behind our shop, shifted to park and duplicated their exact concern, "You see what I mean, that's what I'm talking about !" they say to me. Then I start over again on the hill, but apply park brake 1st, then shifted to park, and VIOLA ! no vibration. Would a picture of the parking pawl help, I'll try to find 1. It's really about the consumers not realizing that with all the technology changes to vehicles over the years, the 1 area that has mostly stayed consistent in feel and operation is the braking system. The 1st major change was with the introduction of ABS. I can't tell you how many customer satisfaction issues I dealt with, just because they did not fully understand. When I took the time to explain function and operation, the customers, most of the time, would look at me like, now that makes sense, how come nobody explained it that way before ? The parking brake is the same kind of thing. Time to change !!

John, BTW, the beeping thing is for when U R in the vehicle and U drive off into the wild blue yonder and have not released the park brake yet. That's about it.
CDAUSA
Needs to Get Out More Member
Posts 12906
06-28-03 08:29 AM - Post#253325    



They are surprisingly durable---ya know when the town drunk goes pulling up to the store----rolling about 5 mph and he throws it in Park---and goes slap-slap-slap-slap-----bang, then the car lunges back and forth about six inches, for what seems like ten minutes????? The tip of the pawl has finally engaged into a tooth in the ring. Of course---I have also seem quite a bit of this related to our better smelling cohorts in life!!!!

Park on a hill without setting the brake first, have a hard time getting it out of park??? That tip of the pawl is wedged by weight against a tooth---I bet the people in SanFran know how to do it, or just pull into a curb I guess
John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
06-28-03 10:00 AM - Post#253326    

In reply to:

I had many customers on several different model lines comment that the vehicle shakes or idles very rough when shifted to park on a slight incline/decline.




That's funny, because I actually had this example in my reply and took it out before I posted. In 1988 I moved into an apartment where the only place I could park was on a hill, the truck was a 1983 K-5 Silverado, 305/TH700R4. I knew better than to park daily and let the tranny hold the truck. I would: 1- come to a complete stop and put the tranny in neutral 2- engage the parking brake and release the service brakes to make sure the parking brake was set properly and holding the truck, then 3- put the tranny into Park. The transmission was never in a bind and always shifted smoothly into gear whenever I was leaving.

The problem is, the parking brake doesn't work period, at least according to several members who have responded to this thread and two other threads regarding the parking brake. If they were to try the procedure for parking on a hill I described above, they wouldn't get past step 2 because the parking brake won't hold the truck.

I don't have the problem because I traded my Silverado for a 99 C/K truck. My parking brake works, I set it everytime I'm on a boat ramp and it will hold the truck and boat on a hill. And I don't need a chime to tell me it's set because I can't drive away with it set. I don't think it's asking too much to expect the parking brake to have the same life expectancy and holding power it's had on previous GM products. Nevermind the low-effort pedal, as long as it works. From what I'm reading here, it doesn't last long and stops working period.
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
06-28-03 10:35 AM - Post#253327    

Bought GM Certified Used silverado 1500 2000 11/3/03 at GM dealer. Parking brake did not hold truck. Dealer insisted "normal". Got a (still) new 2002 on lot, set brake to demonstrate how it is supposed to work. Dealer adjusted reluctantly (no charge - warranty).

7k miles later, brake barely holding. Holds truck but not on steep grade, will not hold truck+trailer on any grade. Back to dealer, still on GM Certified bumper-to-bumper warranty (39mo, 39k) - but must pay $212 for new shoes + labor. Appeal to GM dismissed.

Shoes are used by parking brake only and should NEVER wear unless you use parking brake to stop vehicle while moving. GM acknowledges this but since shoes in general are considered wear item (from the old days, when they were) they will not be replaced under warranty (at least for us).

I think most of these trucks have inoperative parking brake but nobody uses it or cares but a few of us.

If a mostly-theoretical floppy disk read/write problem can justify a settlement in a class action suit (for me reduced the price of a new computer by about 50% - see http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,13541,00.asp) then surely a class action suit based on this problem would seem promising. Don't count on 50% of the price of a new truck, however - unless you are a lawyer of course in which case you should make millions on this. I hate to resort to lawsuite, which are way overdone (being burned by hot coffee, etc.) but in this case I think this is a safety issue AND A design defect issue and it is warranted.

Incidentally we had never driven the vehicle with the brake on to make the chime go off, but now with the new brake pads we are periodically using the parking brake to actually stop the vehicle while moving. Since NOT using it obviously does not extend its life we are hoping that using it for actual braking will.

Having been involved in an accident (not in this vehicle) that resulted directly from a master cylinder failure, I prefer the parking brake to actually work like an emergency brake,which it has on every other vehicle I have owned.

Paul
Mr_Goodwrench
Senior Member
Posts 327
Mr_Goodwrench
06-28-03 10:37 AM - Post#253328    

JWM, you are correct, if the lining wears out, it will loose its ability to hold. Some factors can facilitate pre-mature wear such as lack of use, driving with the park brake on, allowing mud and debris to build-up inside the rotor, etc...

Jefro's problem is that he expects to be able to STOP the vehicle from highway speeds, which is NOT the intended use of that system. Notice its not called an "emergency brake" any more, its a PARKING BRAKE used for PARKING the vehicle.

I'm really curious how a wear item like parking brake shoes would qualify for a lawsuit for being "defective" for merely wearing, like parts of that nature often do.
GM "World Class" Technician ASE Master Auto Technician w/ Advanced Level (L1) ASE Certified Truck Technician

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
06-28-03 10:54 AM - Post#253329    

The problem isn't with it wearing out along with the pads, it's the nonsense of having replacements or adjustments every few-K miles. in order to hold the max GCVW on a hill. As the TSB states, PREMATURE wear is occurring. While I would argue these things should almost never wear out, changing them at the time the rear pads wear would be ok (especially if somebody other than GM made the parts and thus they cheaper than the $80 or so for the GM shoes.)

Other rear-disc vehicles I've had have not experienced this problem, but I admit I have limited experience (1 car) with them. Do other rear-discs have parking brakes that cease functioning in the same 5k+ range? We might not know since almost nobody else I know actually uses the parking brake.

Assuming the brake is used as intended (regularly for parking only), what can an operator do to extend the life of the brake and brake adjustment to approximately match the pad life? I don't mean a mechanic, just an ordinary vehicle operator. I don't see this being a part that is meant to be cleaned or maintained by the operator, and more than the disc pads are.

Paul
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
06-28-03 12:15 PM - Post#253330    

This is the Chevy service talk(BS) from so called pro's that [censored]'s me off. Maybe you "Old Wheezers" ought to get out to actual work room floor and ask the real pro's.

The Parking Brake MUST by state law hold the vehicle. It must hold if you have an AT or Standard tranny. It is a safety part.


Now try and follow this cause I will say it again.

If it goes to the floor don't tell me it is ok. If my main brake went to the floor (it almost does that too) then that would be bad. Don't even start to say that is OK as long as it hold you (blank).

Don't tell me it is OK because it would be better to dodge an accident. I need it to put my boat in the water. It must hold in my neighborhood with children around.

Now, after being a fleet mechanic and driving for over 30 year's I have yet to have an E-Brake go out from normal use. It should last more than 3,000 miles and maintain an ability to determine if it will work. You might be right though, my #12 jethro boots might be the problem. Maybe I didn't see the flashing "brake" light and burned out the pads? Sure, maybe I didn't press the main brake when I set the parking brake too. Pfsst!

What a poor example of an owners manual too. It the old days with drum brakes one would set the Parking Brake. The point was then that you would expand both shoes out as far as the slave would push to assist "Setting" the E-Brake. What bonehead didn't see that error? Come on, this is a disk with a hat secondary.

That is OK. We are going to court on this.

TO OTHER OWNERS. PLEASE CHECK AND " TEST YOUR E-BRAKE AND HAVE IT FIXED BY A DEALER THAT CARES ABOUT SAFETY.
aservicemanager
Member
Posts 3
06-28-03 01:17 PM - Post#253331    

I tried, NEVERMIND !!

Mr GoodWrench, U were right !!
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
06-28-03 05:43 PM - Post#253332    

A properly operating parking brake on a Silverado WILL hold the vehicle securely. If I get in one and apply the parking brake, I can put it in gear and accelerate and it will keep the vheicle from moving unless I really nail the gas. I believe the federal spec is that it must keep the vehicle from moving on a 15 degree incline (no acceleration force applied).

There is a TSB on premature wear caused by a clip that poorly secures the shoes, allowing them to rub against the drum in hat while not applied (and rattle over bumps). I have repaired numerous Silverado's for this problem and we always do it as a warranty repair.

Yes, the pedal DOES go much lower on these than what we're all accustomed to but that IS how it is designed. The following is from a TSB on this "feature"...

"The vehicles indicated above have a "low effort" parking brake apply system. The design intent is that a low force on the park brake pedal will effectively apply the park brake. This was done so all operators can easily apply the park brake sufficiently to maintain the vehicle in a stationary position on an incline.

Owners should not interpret this low pedal effort as an indication of system effectiveness."

Using the parking brake to stop the vehicle while driving is, well, silly. That's not its designed purpose nor is that a requirement of the federal safety standards.
.

John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
06-28-03 05:50 PM - Post#253333    

In reply to:

There is a TSB on premature wear caused by a clip that poorly secures the shoes, allowing them to rub against the drum in hat while not applied (and rattle over bumps). I have repaired numerous Silverado's for this problem and we always do it as a warranty repair.




Can you post the TSB number? Welcome to ChevyTalk!
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
06-28-03 07:07 PM - Post#253334    

We had the clip / premature wear tsb in hand, it was still not allowed as a warranty repair. TSB 02-05-26-002.

Paul
jgrimmy
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1701
jgrimmy
06-28-03 08:38 PM - Post#253335    

In reply to:

This is the Chevy service talk(BS) from so called pro's that [censored]'s me off. Maybe you "Old Wheezers" ought to get out to actual work room floor and ask the real pro's.

The Parking Brake MUST by state law hold the vehicle. It must hold if you have an AT or Standard tranny. It is a safety part.






Where have you found this law? I know of no federal law regarding this. Please post your source.

The last bastion of a scoundrel is personal attacks! Calling the people who have resonded to this post "Old Wheezers" is ridiculous! I am on the service floor every day of the week, and I know others who have responded are also.

Good luck in court, I hope your not embarassed easily.

John

Project Rust Bucket, 57 2dr HT Updated 10/16/06 1955 210 4 dr sdn 1953 210 4 dr sdn 05 Z71 Silverado

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
06-28-03 08:49 PM - Post#253336    

Parking brake function - had to hold the car - used to be part of our annual required state vehicle safety inspection. Many people had rust-frozen cables and had to pay to have them repaired. Where I live now they used to inpect it but now inspection has been dropped altogether.

Court is too $ unless somebody will do class action. We have filed BBB complaint per GM owner's manual, will see what happens. Have never tried it before.

Regarding earlier posts, I am just guessing that using the brake to stop the truck while it is moving might clean off some of the "debris" that experts here claim is one cause of the problem. If using it as intended (parking only) for 5k miles results in it failing to hold, what can a little use do that is worse????

Paul
John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
06-29-03 03:08 AM - Post#253337    

jefro - I know issues such as this one tend to get feathers ruffled. But the rules here apply to mad members as well as the rest.

In reply to:

This is the Chevy service talk(BS) from so called pro's that [censored]'s me off. Maybe you "Old Wheezers" ought to get out to actual work room floor and ask the real pro's.




1. Personal attacks are not allowed, period.
2. Profanity is not allowed. Period. Don't use it in my forum. Personally, I don't even like seeing "censored" in my forum because you can still read the post and see what was filtered out.
3. ChevyTalk will not be the launching point for any class action lawsuit against anyone. This has been tried before here, the site administrators frown on it and squash it.

I understand your frustration first hand. I still have notes in my filing cabinet from 2 years ago when I thought I was going to have to sue my local dealer, and told them so. I got what I wanted, but I've never thrown the notes away. This was over a new 99 4.8 4x4. The day it was resolved, I traded for the crew cab you see in my avatar. So yes, I've been through it and know how mad you can get.

But I think you've got a loser here. If the parking brake has been redesigned such that it has separate pads from the service brake pads, and they wear out way faster than anyone could imagine... well, it's a wear item and it's the owners responsibility to maintain wear items. Thank you, GM. But nonetheless true.

Changing brake pads is pretty easy, I'd learn how to do it (if you don't already know how) and let it go. But that's just me. Good luck with it.


1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

Anonymous


06-29-03 04:01 AM - Post#253338    

In trying not to sound too sarcastic,
every vehicle I have owned in the last 10 years has called "this item" on the vehicle a "parking brake". Stop focusing on the fact that someone called it an emergency brake and discussed using it to stop the vehicle during primary brake failure. Call it emergency or parking the function of the brake is to hold the vehicle as if the brakes where applied. Yes, its designed for holding while the vehicle is sitting and every vehicle besides GM does just that. Did GM wake-up yesterday and say: Crap! it's called a "parking" brake, all it must do is assist the automatic transmission in "park"....!! What about those individuals with manual transmissions?? Lets see, every-time I need to get out of the vehicle I must put it in reverse and shut off the engine in order to "facilitate" the "parking brake" in performing its job.... and don't forget, if your load is heavy enough you best also put something behind/in front of the wheels to "facilitate both the engines compression and parking brakes efforts.... Give me a break! Does this mean GM will start including "chocks" (as they are called in the aviation arena - blocks of wood to place around tires) as "standard equipment" due to the fact GM's parking brake is now defined as a "Minor Resistance" (at best) Brake.
I for one 100% enjoy having you folks who claim to be GM techs and Service Writers discuss "issues" with us not so thrilled GM vehicle owners. BUT, don't try to explain something like this PB issue in ways that makes you sound like another person/GM rep trying to tell me this is just another NORMAL characteristic of the vehicle..

-This parking brake is not a brake at all..
-My badly knocking 5.3L is not normal...
-My ticking lifters is not normal...
-The constant vibration at highway speeds is not normal...

Fix your engineering issues GM and call it what it is. Have some integrity and stop acting like a giant fraud passing crap off to the consumer.

Thanks

Smitty

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
06-29-03 06:16 AM - Post#253339    

The issue is that during the warranty period, some people are getting shoes and the infamous redesigned "clip" (which according to the TSB is at least one cause of what GM says is "premature" wear) replaced under warranty, others of us are not.

The reason I did not do this work myself was that, first, only GM sells the parts that I could find anyway, so there was no money to be saved there. Second, reading postings including some here had taught me that some people are getting this covered. Third, calling GM (800#) ahead of time they indicated it "probably" would be covered but they would not commit until dealer had diassembled it. By that time you are in for 1/2 the labor charge anyway. If they had said they would not cover it I would have done it myself. If it had been a brake pad for example, with no TSB, I would have change it myself. If I had been out of warranty I would have done the work myslef.

There is no reason not to use the GM-specified appeal process to attempt to resolve this issue, and no reason not to file a lawsuit if the outcome of the arbitration is not to your liking.

This is an issue where reasonable people can disagree, which is what arbitrators and courts are for. Certainly there are two sides to every issue as has been illustrated by this forum.

Paul
bad_turbo
Senior Member
Posts 230
06-29-03 08:03 AM - Post#253340    

I have an 01 and 02 3500 that I use to tow a 3-car trailer to haul vehicles in socal. Both of my trucks parking brakes stop working once a week. I use the brake alot and it is usually holding quite a bit of weight. The dealer fixed it under warranty the first few times but since I rack up alot of miles they stopped fixing it and said it was normal for the peddle to go to the floor. I haul alot of late model chevy trucks and probably 1 out of 50 had the parking brake working.
John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
06-29-03 08:05 AM - Post#253341    

In reply to:

I tried, NEVERMIND !!




You tried what?
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
07-01-03 07:11 AM - Post#253342    

In reply to:

We had the clip / premature wear tsb in hand, it was still not allowed as a warranty repair.




This is an issue with your dealer, not GM. GM gives Service Managers a ton of leeway. Cust. Assistance goes by what the SM tells them when/if they call the store. If the SM says he ain't covering it, they won't (can't?) force him to do so.

If your dealer wanted to do the repair under warranty, even if it was OVER the 3/36, he could, within certain time/mileage limits (usually 2/24 over the 3/36) unless he has a problem with his AVM (rep).

There are a lot of factors why the dealership won't fix it. Did you buy it there or elsewhere? Do you do your services there or do you go to Jiffy Lube? Did you bury them on the CSI survey last time you got one?

The old cliche, one hand washes the other, applies.
.

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-01-03 11:36 AM - Post#253343    

Answers to questions:

1. dealership we bought truck from maintained not holding was "normal" so we did not even have them attempt repair and will never go back to them for anything ever. So this was another dealer.

2. Dealer that did the work claimed that they could tell from parts that we had abused parking brake (this is story from GM, not the dealer, who blames GM) - basically that we drove with it on. To clarify, after having it repaired we now drive with it on (i.e. use it as a service brake) every time we drive the truck, in an attempt to prolong its life by purging debris that experts here claim is causing the problem. Before repair we never drove with it on - I suppose a couple of feet once or twice, but you can't go any farther without chime going off! Original dealer did adjust brake (and thus inspected it, only way) when we bought truck, but noted on repair order that it was done only to "satisfy salesman" and had already been functioning normally (but worked after adjustment.)
3. Have only had truck 7 mo. only warranty service so far. I change oil myself.

I think the dealership needs to explain if they do not want to do warranty work, we will go elsewhere. Some dealers have told me that though it pays less they need it and so appreciate anybody bringing vehicle in. Others seem to not want the business. HOw are we supposed to know who is who if they won't tell us?

Turns out that as we suspected bbb arbitration does not apply so we are left to small claims as only alternative. We are looking into small claims now to see how much we will be on the hook for (besides the $57 filing fees) if we lose. Have no experience with small claims - don't know what counterclaims we would be liable for. Sad fact is we have a lot of time on our hands, would be an interesting experience to go to court if there isn't too much downside. Have not done so yet.

It is important for everybody to report this problem to NHTSA; if enough are reported they might take action. I suggest not filing on-line, the form is broken (at least in my browser) and will lose data. Use toll free 888-327-4236
instead, they will follow up with paperwork.

Paul
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
07-01-03 12:20 PM - Post#253344    

My wife took the truck into the dealer to have an inspection sticker put on.
See this. http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/vi/inspection/rules_list.asp?itemdrop=Brake+-+Parking
It failed.
As a former fleet mechanic with the US Postal Service I can assure you I know about brakes. Stopping at mail box to mail box causes some wear and tear not seen in most users. The parking brake is a normal maint routine. Every Postal employee is supposed to set the parking brake upon leaving the vehicle.

Since the "Kit" with new shoes also comes with the modified clip why do you not know of this? How is it that so many dealers are installing the kits and still the so called techs know nothing of this. I am rather confused. If you asked any of the good techs on the floor they might show you the new clips and explain what is happening to the shoes when it fails.

I can assure you it doesn't take a dime to sue anyone. We just want a working truck, not any money. If some child gets run over that might be a bigger issue. There are plenty of lawyers and plenty of good and honest jurys that can tell the difference between a working parking brake and one that doesn't.
Anonymous


07-01-03 12:50 PM - Post#253345    

GM-Tech wrote:

"There are a lot of factors why the dealership won't fix it. Did you buy it there or elsewhere? Do you do your services there or do you go to Jiffy Lube? Did you bury them on the CSI survey last time you got one?"

Not a very professional comment coming from a "GM Tech"... And one I am sure many possible GM buyers would love to hear.
"If any of the above are going to apply, don't buy a GM vehicle because the GM dealers don't have to perform warranty work unless "they" want to".

New roadside billboard:
"If you just moved to town with a GM vehicle under warranty, you best trade it in because we wont work on it unless purchased here"
"Also, if you want warranty work, don't plan on saving money on cyclical service items that you could easily perform yourself or have completed more conveniently elsewhere. You need to pay us for that first."

Furthermore, if your dealer is slammed on a customer satisfaction survey, its probably for a reason. Look at it in a professional manner and take it as some "needed" constructive criticism. Have some integrity and own up to the fact you didn't take care of a customers issue properly. Don't act like a 12 year old and refuse to work on his vehicle again because he/she may point out your weaknesses. You take that CSI, call the customer back in and fix the issue. I have filled out many, both good and bad, but only for the dealers that I thought it would make a difference or deserve the recognition. Besides, in the old days this "CSI" was the vehicle for dealerships to make changes, now days its only used for a dealer to look good in Mother GM's big database of dealerships. Christ, one of the dealers I use locally actually sends them out with the "highest" ranking for each question highlighted, to "assist" you in filling out the questionnaire. They could care less about their service "performance" only if the score is good...
I guess Gm/dealerships will have to start placing a disclaimer at the beginning of the CSI: "Be advised, if you speak your mind and or the truth you will be penalized on each and every future visit to this service department."

Bottom line, after working in a very large, professional service dept for 8 years (many years ago), and currently going through my own struggles with a 2001 Sub, it truly disturbs me on how little professionalism and knowledge dealerships display today.

An old "cliché" for dealerships and GM: "don't bite the hand that feeds you"

The problem today is the fact that GM knows that they can "bite" hands left and right and more just keep sticking their fingers in GM's mouth.

The only difference between ENRON and other large corporations? They got caught.

Smitty

John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
07-01-03 01:14 PM - Post#253346    

KJSmitty - try this: I mentioned in a recent thread I thought I was going to have to sue the dealership. I had bought a new 99 Silverado reg cab 4.8/auto/4x4. They addressed my complaint when I threatened to sue. And once it was fixed, I immediately traded it for the 99 crew cab in my avatar.

The kicker? Banners in the service department boasting of their high rating. How'd they get that rating? If you let them keep and fill out the CSI, they'd give you a voucher for a free fill-up at the gas station on the corner. How many people fill those out anyway? So you can imagine how they got the high rating, trading them for a fill-up.

They haven't touched my crew cab, and I won't buy anything else from them.
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-01-03 02:21 PM - Post#253347    

I neglected to mention that we have been in to this servicing dealer for several items (4 times maybe) and have only had one telephone survey. Have never seen a written survey. We did not slam them and were pleased with the work they had done. It took them 2 times to fix one problem but it was a hard problem to figure out so we still felt they had done a good job.

I work in an industry where we have these surveys too and I am very aware that what businesses care about is the numbers they get (and can they advertise), not the actual customer satisfaction. Anyone who doesn't "cheat" enough to get perfect numbers will be punished in one way or another.

Paul
tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-01-03 03:27 PM - Post#253348    

Regarding the postal service vehicles, were they the same design with separate parking and service friction material? That is my main arguement - the parking shoes should only have to be used when the truck is already stopped so wear should be minimal.

I will say that when I had a standard and hand brake in my old front drive cars I'd sometimes use the handbrake to stop it when I was pulling into a parking place. Maybe people do stuff like that but it is extremely awkward to do that with the foot brake on the silverado, at least if you want to modulate the brake a little. Don't know anything about the postal vehicles, just asking.

Paul
Mike C
Member
Posts 30
07-01-03 06:28 PM - Post#253349    

The newer Postal vehicles aka FFV,s are based on the ford explorer chassis and drivetrain so they have seperate shoes for the parking brake.
2002 Z71 ECSB LT Westers massaged PCM Magnaflow cat-back

jgrimmy
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1701
jgrimmy
07-01-03 09:08 PM - Post#253350    

This post has gotten a bit off topic and some statements have been taken out of context:

In reply to:

"There are a lot of factors why the dealership won't fix it. Did you buy it there or elsewhere? Do you do your services there or do you go to Jiffy Lube? Did you bury them on the CSI survey last time you got one?"

Not a very professional comment coming from a "GM Tech"... And one I am sure many possible GM buyers would love to hear.
"If any of the above are going to apply, don't buy a GM vehicle because the GM dealers don't have to perform warranty work unless "they" want to".





This is not a statement of we will only do warranty work if we want to! GM sets the warranty rules not the dealership, as service managers we have some lattitude in approving repairs that are not technically warranty issues, as described by GM.

In reply to:

Furthermore, if your dealer is slammed on a customer satisfaction survey, its probably for a reason. Look at it in a professional manner and take it as some "needed" constructive criticism. Have some integrity and own up to the fact you didn't take care of a customers issue properly. Don't act like a 12 year old and refuse to work on his vehicle again because he/she may point out your weaknesses. You take that CSI, call the customer back in and fix the issue. I have filled out many, both good and bad, but only for the dealers that I thought it would make a difference or deserve the recognition. Besides, in the old days this "CSI" was the vehicle for dealerships to make changes, now days its only used for a dealer to look good in Mother GM's big database of dealerships. Christ, one of the dealers I use locally actually sends them out with the "highest" ranking for each question highlighted, to "assist" you in filling out the questionnaire. They could care less about their service "performance" only if the score is good...





A few points here, the CSI of a dealership effects the price they can buy vehicles from, and bonus's for the tech right up to the owner! Of course dealers care about customer satisfaction, do you think we are all a bunch of evil demons out to ruin your day?

I have personally gotten several negative CSI surveys from people I have bent over forwards for, I agree with you on one point, I called them back and learned from our conversations. Many people that are unhappy with the vehicle will slam the service dept on a CSI survey, even though the service dept did a great job. No service dept employee should take a hit for that!

Dealers do not send out the CSI surveys, GM does, you may recieve a letter from your dealer, but you will never get a survey that is highlighted, just not true.

In reply to:

I guess Gm/dealerships will have to start placing a disclaimer at the beginning of the CSI: "Be advised, if you speak your mind and or the truth you will be penalized on each and every future visit to this service department."





Again not true, please speak your mind! And let a dealer know what he is doing wrong or RIGHT! Be fair also and understand the dealer does not make the vehicle or the rules. To use a phrase I just saw somewhere " Don't act like a 12 year old" and try to get them back on a survey before giving the dealer a chance to solve your concern.

CSI is very very important, if a customer has purchased their vehicle from me, serviced it with me and given good CSI, I will take care of them outside of warranty within my power, good business.

If a customer has purchased their vehicle from a competitor, had it serviced elsewhere and banged me on CSI, I will do all the warranty work they are entitled to, I will not go beyond that, why would I? They are not going to be my customer! It's business gentlemen, the real world.

John
Service manager/advisor (former tech)
Chevy dealer

Project Rust Bucket, 57 2dr HT Updated 10/16/06 1955 210 4 dr sdn 1953 210 4 dr sdn 05 Z71 Silverado

MikeJ
Moderator
Posts 4173
MikeJ
07-02-03 02:53 AM - Post#253351    

In reply to:

The Parking Brake MUST by state law hold the vehicle. It must hold if you have an AT or Standard tranny. It is a safety part




The safety inspection by the City Of Memphis requires the vehicle to be held by the parking brake while the vehicle is in gear and idling. For manual transmissions it must hold as the clutch is released to the point of stalling. Failure to hold the vehicle will cause a failure on the inspection and that results in no renewal for your plates.
Mike


57_sedan_delivery
Old as Dirt Member
Posts 6720
07-02-03 02:55 AM - Post#253352    

GM may think they set the warranty rules but in reality they don't always, the dealer does in many places. In 1996 I lived between two small towns that each had a Chevy dealership and I went to both looking for a new truck. Dealership in town S had $2K 'additional dealer profit' added to each truck, the one in town H did not. Neither place had what I wanted so when I was down in the valley (4 hrs away) visiting my son I stopped at the dealer I used to work for and found what I was looking for and bought it. About six months later I took the truck to the dealer in town S and they refused to do the work as I didn't buy it from them. When I asked about the supposed GM warranty where any dealer would work on it they said they didn't care, this was the rules of the owner. Never went back to them again.

You are right about the service manager having lattitude in approving repairs and I have found some more willing to work with the customer than others. Those are the ones that get my business. Not saying I'm trying to get non warranty items fixed for free, just get warranty issues done.
Mike W.

Founding father Desert Classic Chevys in Phoenix, Az.

1957 sedan delivery 454 TH400
1956 windowed sedan delivery US Dept of Ag car
1956 Chevy 3100 US Navy pickup
1959 rare GMC 100 fleet option 100 pickup

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-02-03 06:40 AM - Post#253353    

GM has refused to provide the written procedure for determining that "abuse", not the design, causes the "premature wear". If they have determined that the clip or other design flaw results, for example, in a certain percentage of wear on a certain part of the shoe or something, they need to put that in the TSB so there will be no discretion in who gets it covered and who does not. When the dealer just makes a statement (to GM not to me) that I have been abusing the brakes when I know I have not, that bothers me. If they show me the shoes and a document from GM that explains how to determine whether wear was caused by the clip or abuse or whatever, then my issue is with GM not the dealer. As it is the dealer blames GM, GM blames the dealer, and nobody puts anything in writing. The customer shouldn't have to know who is responsible for making warranty coverage determinations under each possible set of circumstances. The warranty comes from GM so I expect it to be an issue between GM and me.

About buying a truck at the servicing dealer, that makes no sense to me. We looked in a wide geographic radius and found ONE used truck with the combination of options we wanted and bought that truck. I expect that a dealer might give preference to someone who bought a truck from them, but that is why we don't complain about having to leave the truck for several days or a week every time we take it to be fixed for even minor problems. I am not a car dealer and don't know about their business, but in my business you are lucky to have somewhat lower-rate "fill in" work to do when you otherwise would have employees sitting around costing you money and not generating any income at all. If warranty work pays less then I think it would fit into that category, but please correct me if that is not the case. Dealers can't expect us to understand how their business works if they don't tell us.

Paul
Anonymous


07-02-03 08:20 AM - Post#253354    

The Porsche 944 that I had did have the same problem. The Parking Brake wouldnt hold the car at all, and you do not get the same confidence in the car parked with it in gear. The problem with the 944 was that it had worn Parking Brake Shoes. My uncle who formerly drove the car, sometimes drove with it on, and when we got it, the Parking Brake never worked, until we replaced the shoes and readjusted the cable.

The reason im saying this is because the Porsche had 4 wheel Discs, and so do the 99-03 Silverados. I would get the shoes checked, and if they are wearing too quickly, readjust the parking brake cable. Somehow there is some pressure put on the shoes, causing them to wear.

The Parking Brake is made to help hold the vehicle when it is PARKED. As Mr_Goodwrench said, it is not intended to bring the vehicle to a stop from high speeds. Sure you can use it to try, and I will say that again, TRY to bring the vehicle to a stop if your main brakes fail, which you shouldnt need to do if you keep on regular maintence on your vehicle. It is no longer intended as an Emergency Brake. And it goes the same on my truck.
jgrimmy
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1701
jgrimmy
07-02-03 08:36 AM - Post#253355    

Allow me to clarify A couple things that I may not have made clear.

Under your 3 year 36,000 warranty, recalls and special policies the dealer has a contratual legal obligation to perform necassary warranty work on your vehicle regardless of where it was purchased. A common mis-conception is dealers do not want to do warranty work. Of course we do, we are paid by GM for these repairs albeit at a lower rate.

If I make a decision to cover an item or repair out of warranty, over 3/36 this is commonly called GOODWILL, I must be able to back it up to my boss the AGM, if he disagrees guess who has to pay for it! Not GM. If the customer has had a record of bad CSI surveys I would be insane to expose myself to the likelihood of generating a negative CSI by performing warranty work after his warranty is up.

One other thing and I'll shut up, there may be some confusion about TSB's. These are Technical Service Bulletins, not recalls or extended warranty. They are only there to help techs diagnose and repair problems.

John
Service manager/advisor
Chevy dealer
Project Rust Bucket, 57 2dr HT Updated 10/16/06 1955 210 4 dr sdn 1953 210 4 dr sdn 05 Z71 Silverado

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-02-03 08:58 AM - Post#253356    

We at least are not asking to cover anything out of warranty. A GM Certified used vehicle has a 3mo 3k extension to the 36/36, which we understand has similar terms and our vehicle was serviced for parking brake complaints first at 29k/31mo and again at 37k/38mo.

Similarly we brought our truck (before 36k) in with a complaint that when we first towed a trailer (4500lbs) with our truck we experienced a shake in the driveline when accelerating from a stop. "No Trouble Found", but nobody tried it with a heavy load (which is the only time it occurs. In any case, we later find TSB describing this condition. We have asked GM why this does not apply to our VIN (wrong year, part #s, something), still waiting for response.

I would prefer not to have to drive to library and look up TSBs, but once I find a TSB has applied to a problem I have but not been cited by dealer, eveything else gets suspect and you start reading every TSB. And yes, the possibility then exists that you will then find "symptoms" that you otherwise would not have noticed. But once something is missed the owner has to assume other things can be missed too and thus take a very aggressive approach to seeking service described by TSB while warranty is in effect.

Some time ago we took Malibu to dealer under 36/36 to fix noise in passenger seat. They worked on it twice, never fixed, but replaced parts. While researching truck TSBs I looked up Malibu too and sure enough there is TSB describing exact problem with relatively simple fix dealer did not try.

These incidents, taken together, establish in our mind a pattern that the customers, not dealers, are now responsible for researching and advocating for service under TSBs.

I think if GM is declaring "abuse" to be the reason for not covering items they need to provide the written guidelines they used for determining that abuse occurred. Otherwise GM will just declare "abuse" for everything and not be responsible for any warranty repairs ever.

Paul

jgrimmy
Frequent Contributor
Posts 1701
jgrimmy
07-02-03 09:29 AM - Post#253357    

Paul,
I agree with everything you said, I make it very clear to my techs that they MUST check for bulletins on vehicles exhibiting unusual or difficult problems. It is not the customers responsibility.

There is no info on your location in your info stuff, where are you located? I'm not sure I can help at all but I would be willing to try.

John
Service manager/advisor
Chevy dealer
Project Rust Bucket, 57 2dr HT Updated 10/16/06 1955 210 4 dr sdn 1953 210 4 dr sdn 05 Z71 Silverado

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-02-03 10:53 AM - Post#253358    

John,

Thanks but we are from OK. Warranty only goes to 7/10/03, 1600 miles from now. Next week we are taking the truck and trailer up to Detroit because I have work there 7/14. Nope, not working at GM ;-)

I have sent email appeal to GM regarding the driveline shudder TSB so I think it's recorded that I complained during warranty (also complained to dealer about shudder 2/17/03) so I think we can battle on on that front even after warranty.

In fairness this dealer has found & fixed a couple problems which I have not found in TSBs and could not fix myself (despite a LOT of trying!), so I am not being entirely critical of them. They take the truck in right away and get it back in a few days to a week, which works for us as we still have '97 Malibu and generally don't really need both cars.) Tried another dealer, had to make appt. a week ahead and even after they'd had it two days they hadn't even touched car. Also that dealer couldn't/wouldn't fix Malibu noise when it was under warranty (we had bought it from them) despite several tries. Then we had the dealer we bought the truck from insisting the brake should hold truck only on level ground, plus couldn't/wouldn't fix obvious truck noise that the other dealer did (in 2 tries.)

Thanks, will keep looking for dealer that wants our business.

Paul

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
07-02-03 02:04 PM - Post#253359    

The real deal is that owners should USE their parking brake when ever they exit the vehicle. On this design the owners have no way of knowing if the parking brake actually is working. If it goes to the floor what does that tell you, nothing. They must TEST it and shouldn't have to. You should not be able to drive away with the parking brake properly set unless you way out of touch with your senses.

The LLV's are Chevy not Ford chassis and are one of a kind, the body was made by Grumman but they were bought out. They do not use this design being drum on rear axle. Other service trucks in these year ranges use this design as well as the VMF techs and the many Texas drivers who have a pickup or suv as their personal transportation.
Mike C
Member
Posts 30
07-02-03 05:14 PM - Post#253360    

Jefro the ffv,s are ford, based on the explorer 4x2 chassis and drivetrain, the older llv,s are nothing more than a s-10 with a grumman aluminum body. But i digress the parking brake on my 02 z71 goes to the floor, but does hold the truck in gear. I think its a poor design, have not seen any problems with the FFV fords with the same setup. Drivers set the thing everytime they park, we have a fleet of about 75 of them and no problems with the ford brakes, just that 4.0 v6 timing chain rattle and a whole bunch of bad IAC valves that are not covered under warranty.
2002 Z71 ECSB LT Westers massaged PCM Magnaflow cat-back

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
07-04-03 01:31 AM - Post#253361    

In reply to:

"There are a lot of factors why the dealership won't fix it. Did you buy it there or elsewhere? Do you do your services there or do you go to Jiffy Lube? Did you bury them on the CSI survey last time you got one?"

Not a very professional comment coming from a "GM Tech"... And one I am sure many possible GM buyers would love to hear.




Sorry if you don't think it's professional. It is, unfortunately, a fact of life in today's world. It isn't just GM or dealerships or the car industry in general that operates under this principle.
.

*Mort*
Senior Member
Posts 790
07-04-03 04:43 AM - Post#253362    


Just because the parking brake foot lever can be pushed to the floor does not mean that it should be pushed to the floor every time it is used. That can only result in excessive strain on the system unless it is self adjusting to a maximum force no matter how hard the lever is pushed. That will result in stretched cables and strain on the other components of the system. I must admit I am not really sure how it adjusts for the fact it can be pushed to the floor but I only push mine down until a slight resistance can be felt which is just slightly more than half way. If I test it in this position it will hold the vehicle from moving. Just a thought???

It is recommended to hold the regular brake pedal down when applying or releasing the parking brake, not so much to set the rear shoes as in vehicles with rear drum brakes, but to ensure that the vehicle is and remains stable during this operation and to keep excess pressure off of the parking pal.

I agree why would the parking brake shoes ever wear out if the brake is not applied when the vehicle is moving unless there is a flaw in the system or the cables are not allowing the shoes to fully retract when the parking brake is released. The other reason is forgetting to release the brake which I can do on occassion. I have yet to hear the chime so I guess I have not done that in this vehicle yet. When cables start to seize this can happen but the dash light and chime should warn a person of this.

So far so good for me.

Cheers

Jim
Mort 2003 Silverado 1500HD Auto 4WD

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-04-03 11:20 AM - Post#253363    

GM-Tech,

Every dealership seems to operate differently and I can only comment from a customer's perspective.

At one dealership we have been to, the service department has outright contempt for the sales department and seems to be a separate "profit center", so why would they give more favorable treatment to a vehicle bought at that dealer? Many businesses do operate that way, each division a separate profit center. Not saying it's right or wrong but it contradicts what you are saying.

At another dealer we are told there is very little money to be made on a new (as opposed to used) vehicle SALE, and that the money is in the ongoing service. Well then, why wouldn't dealers compete for each other's warranty service business - since that's about all the service that will be needed for many vehicles during the warranty period? If not true - how am I supposed to know that????

I can see on a personal level getting slammed on a survey would cause you to not want to do any favors for a customer. In our case (7 service visits) we were not given one chance to give any feedback to GM and had only 1 followup call from the dealer. We called GM to complain about GM not covering the brake repair only after having the service done and the dealer telling us the GM wouldn't cover it.

I think you are assuming that customers know a lot more about the sales and service process than we do. What we know is we bought the car from GM and the warranty is from GM so if something isn't covered, our argument should be with GM not a dealer. We do not know all the rules for who is supposed to authorize what, or the whole hierarchy of how a warranty claim works through the GM system, but would be happy for you to explain it in detail. Personally I think all vehicle sales should be from "factory stores" and private dealership ownerhip is inefficient, which would solve the whole accountability issue we have now.

In my business I once did work for a customer and it was a pretty big failure, due to the customer failing to prepare the equipment I had to work on properly. That's my story, but they would tell you another story. Anyway once the work was done I submitted my bill and a month later found they had paid 20%, $400 less than the full amount. No complaint, no threat not to pay, that's just what they decided to pay. When I called to figure out what happened, the payables department told me the customer had written "not happy" on the invoice and told them to pay that much.

Did I think the whole problem was their fault? Yes. Did I insist they pay the other $400? No, because I didn't feel like making a lot of excuses to a customer. I didn't think that even for my way-sub-six-figure business, it was worth arguing over $400, because I believe that whenever you can accomodate the customer, you should go with "the customer is always right." So I ate the 20% and moved on, and sure enough they did come back, maybe twice or three times, for more business - I made maybe a couple thousand dollars on that over next couple of years.

So here I am wondering why if I can eat $400 to make a customer happy, why can't GM pay the $200 warranty claim (which would be less than $200 for GM?) where there appears at least to be a legitimate dispute.

So, I would somewhat dispute your argument that "this is how business works."

Paul


BigDogSS
"6th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts 3616
BigDogSS
07-07-03 06:15 AM - Post#253364    

I have a 1989 Ford F350 CC with drum rear brakes. When the parking brake is set, the truck WILL NOT MOVE...even in gear giving it some gas.
On the other hand, I also have a 1996 Chevrolet Caprice with the heavy duty drum rear brakes and when the parking brake is set to the floor, it will barely hold the car and it can be driven away with slight resistance.
No comparision between the Ford parking brake and the Chevy parking brake.
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS convertible - Ermine White C1
    1967 Chevrolet Impala SS 396 - Marina Blue FF
    1996 Chevrolet Caprice Classic LT1
    2001 Ford F250 CC 4x4


GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
07-12-03 08:00 PM - Post#253365    

In reply to:

I think you are assuming that customers know a lot more about the sales and service process than we do. What we know is we bought the car from GM and the warranty is from GM so if something isn't covered, our argument should be with GM not a dealer. We do not know all the rules for who is supposed to authorize what, or the whole hierarchy of how a warranty claim works through the GM system, but would be happy for you to explain it in detail.




You're right, "we" probably do think the general public knows more about the ins and outs of how our system works than they really do. It would be much to your advantage to know, that's for sure.

While your vehicle is still under warranty, you are entitled to go to any GM dealership that sells that make of GM vehicle. In emergency situations, you can go to ANY GM dealership. The latter is a relatively new occurance as we previously could not, under any circumstances, provide warranty repairs for a make for which we do not have a franchise.

If, during the warranty period, you have a failure, the decision as to whether or not it's a "defect" or related to a lack of maintenance, abuse, normal wear and tear, modification, etc., is totally arbitrary and the decision is up to the Service Manager (SM). GM will not force a SM to perform a repair if the SM has told them it is not a defect, but related to one of the previously mentioned abitrary problems. You can, however, go to another dealership for a second opinion, which GM themselves may recommend.

Does it make good business sense to take care of a customer, whether or not that customer bought the vehicle there or services it there? Absolutely! We bend over backwards in many instances for first time customers that bought the vehicle elsewhere and service it elsewhere. Adding a new customer to the rolls is always a good idea. Do all SM's have good business sense? No, of course not.

Contrary to what my username may indicate, I am a SM at a chevy store. And all I can tell you is, if you rolled into my service drive with your parking brake failure, I would repair it under warranty (assuming you are still IN warranty), no questions asked. I know for a fact that there has been a problem with these and past history says it's not a wear and tear issue. GM would cover it because I determined it to be a warrantable repair. It appears that in your case, GM is not taking care of it for you based on the feedback they are getting from the dealerships you've been to. GM does not make these decisions on their own. They go by what the SM at the dealership tells them.

Would I take care of it for you if you were beyond the terms of the warranty? I don't know. How much out of the warranty would be a factor, but human nature comes into play here too. Come in with the typical "You owe me" demanding attitude and you'd get squat. Be a reasonable person and be willing to work with me, then yeah, I would be more likely to help you out.

Believe it or not, we are expected to do a certain percentage of "goodwill" (out of warranty) repairs. There's no penalty if we don't, but I've had my GM rep tell me we're not doing enough goodwill and we need to spend more money on it.

For every one of your stories about the $400 that you absorbed to make a customer happy, I can give you a couple dozen where we've done the same. So I'm not impressed. How many times A WEEK will you do it before you say "ENOUGH!" and start to base it on how good of a customer it is? And how many times will you do it for the same person when they call you names, berate you, treat you like some piece of dirt that is damn lucky to have their business, threaten to write "Action Line" or call Channel whatever if you don't take care of them. Go ahead, impress me.
.

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-13-03 07:21 PM - Post#253366    

GM-Tech,

I don't think I could impress you with weekly statistics, since in 10 years I have almost never had more than one customer per week - happy or otherwise. Through posts by you and others hopefully everybody is learning more about how GM/dealer relationships work.

In my business, I usually perform service as a subcontractor to a manufacturer or primary contractor - which is what I map your GM dealer relationship to. Instead of opening their own stores, GM decided to sub out the sales and service part of the business to you. The manufactures I work with give us absolutely no capability or authority to deal with policy issues - we are REQUIRED to send EVERY customer complaint back to the manufactures or primary contractors. If I'm the source of the customer's complaint, that's when the manufacturer (my customer) comes back to me and I run into the example I gave you.

We never complained to the dealer. I never demanded they do anything - I just described the brake problem to them ("parking brake doesn't hold") and did not even suggest a solution, TSB, etc. Before I ever took the truck in I had already gone to GM about the TSB, complained about the parking brake design, and asked what the policy for covering "premature wear" was, because of what you said: the warranty is with GM, and has to be honored by any dealer. So there must be a written GM policy to guide the dealers, so all dealers will provide uniform service.

I don't really understand your point about the SM's judgement. If GM written policy says a certain failure is a defect, I believe GM could in fact require you to perform that warranty service for GM at the warranty rate. Similarly, you can demand that GM pay you for whatever service you perform in compliance with their written guidelines.

As for our relationship with this dealer, we have never complained to the dealer about anything they have done. We complained directly to GM about the brakes BEFORE having them fixed, WHILE having them fixed, and (numerous times) AFTER having them fixed, each time specifically stating we did not consider this to be a dealer dispute. We complained to the BBB, NHTSA, and anybody else who would listen. Every complaint specified GM, NOT the selling or servicing dealer. We did and do have serious complaints (which we never expressed to GM or anybody else) about the selling dealer, but that's another story.

We were not expecting "goodwill", just coverage during the term of the warranty - or a detailed technical explanation of why the wear we encountered was not the "premature" wear specified by the TSB.

Paul
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
07-14-03 12:42 PM - Post#253367    

In reply to:

I don't really understand your point about the SM's judgement. If GM written policy says a certain failure is a defect, I believe GM could in fact require you to perform that warranty service for GM at the warranty rate. Similarly, you can demand that GM pay you for whatever service you perform in compliance with their written guidelines.




When I was talking about judgement calls, I was generalizing, I wasn't speaking specifically about your parking brake concern.

And a TSB on a concern doesn't mean that it applies to your vehicle. You need to read the fine print at the bottom of every TSB. It says, in part, "If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition."

Sure, we have a "Policies & Procedures" book (CD actually these days) that spells out our responsibilities. But even with that, everything is not black and white. It's pretty lengthy, so I obviously don't know it by heart, but I doubt there is anything in there that says anything even close to, "If a car has a problem and it is described in a bulletin, you WILL do it under warranty." There's nothing even remotely like that spelled out.

If the service dept. says that this is not what's wrong with your vehicle (and maybe it isn't!) and the TSB does not apply, well then, you're out of luck.

You keep saying it's GM, it's GM, not the dealer, but I'm telling ya, It's NOT GM, it's the dealer that has the power to make the repair for you under warranty. They're not doing it for whatever reason. I won't even attempt to judge whether they're right or wrong, because I'm not there and I only know your side of the story. And this is exactly the way GM sees it. The dealership is their eyes and ears and if the dealership say no, then it's no.

And I'm done here. I can see I'm getting nowhere trying to get you to see the light. No offense, but I've been in this kind of conversation with a customer many times before. I usually end up throwing up my hands, shaking my head and walking away because they just keep going in circles and circles and just do not want to understand. I'm doing that now.

.

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-14-03 03:35 PM - Post#253368    

GM-Tech,

I do understand your point, I was explaining what we did BEFORE reading yours and other posts, and why we did it. Given what we know now we would have done some things differently.

Meanwhile I've got my own customer satisfaction problem at work this week; it's like facing a whole room full of people with Silverado parking brakes :-(

Paul
Anonymous


07-14-03 10:21 PM - Post#253369    

I have a 2000 Z-71 LT Ex-cab short bed and from day one (1-7- 00) the parking brake has been useless but look at the bright side, the rear brake pads lasted 80,000 miles and the front pads are about fifty percent now at 99,000 miles.
The bad news, at 94,000 miles a new transmission was required.

dcarey
Contributor
Posts 911
07-15-03 03:47 AM - Post#253370    

GM-Tech, if your boss man is telling you to spend more on "goodwill", I'd be happy to drop by and you could spend all you want on my rig! I took my truck in a couple times for warrenty work at a RIVAL dealership from were I bought it. Professional, courtious, service. Never had a problem.
Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
07-15-03 07:19 AM - Post#253371    

Well then, if you found a good store that takes care of your needs, you don't need me! But you're welcome to come by anytime.
.

toolbox
Senior Member
Posts 258
07-16-03 05:55 AM - Post#253372    

My 99 SIlverado broke the parking brake cable when I was applying the brake after parking. Is this common with these trucks?
'82 C-10 SWB 350/350

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
07-16-03 11:53 AM - Post#253373    

I have never seen a broken parking brake cable, but then we're not in the "rust belt" area of the country. And it doesn't appear you are either.
.

LASilverado
Member
Posts 16
07-21-03 09:23 AM - Post#253374    

Just letting you know I have had a problem with a 2000 chevy tahoe, however it was a previous owners neglect. She must have rode down the road with parking brake on and the parking brake pads were worn very badly. A few local mechanic shops I called around town (Lake Charles, LA) said that they have never heard of this problem with faulty parking brakes.
Dustin
ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
07-21-03 09:51 AM - Post#253375    

In reply to:

A few local mechanic shops I called around town (Lake Charles, LA) said that they have never heard of this problem with faulty parking brakes.




I've had premature parking brake shoe wear on both an '01 Tahoe and an '02 Silverado. Both times, the dealer replaced the shoes, clips, and adjusted the brake so it acts like a parking brake should (tension when you push down on it).

I believe all this nonsense about parking brakes going to the floor as "normal" is just that, nonsense. Anybody who believes a parking brake that sinks to the floor is "normal" is simply fooling themselves. The '01 couldn't even hold itself on a small rearward incline when shifting from park to drive without some throttle. The '02 was barely functional.

GM *has* acknowledged premature parking brake shoe wear as a factory problem, and *will* repair it under warranty. I just can't understand how some GM service shops stay in business by turning down every warranty repair they possibly can.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
07-23-03 05:03 PM - Post#253376    

Wanted everyone to know that the servicing dealer contacted us and is going to refund the money we paid for the parking brake repair ($212). This repair was done at 37k miles, after the 36/36 warranty ran out, but before our GM certified used vehicle (39/39) warranty expired.

As I understand it, this is the dealer wanting to satisfy us, not a GM decision.

We now feel that we're being treated fairly, and will now be likely to return either of our Chevy vehicles to this dealer when repairs are required.

Of course the basic issue of the original design remains, and we still feel GM should be fixing all these inoperative parking brakes.

Paul
Atech
Member
Posts 3
08-01-03 04:39 PM - Post#253377    

Well I have read this topic and I need to respond to some things that I have read here!!

1. To the people you quoted state inspection laws! Yes I know the laws I am a state inspector in PA, you are using laws written in the 1950's for inspections. You are quoting one part of the laws but missing other parts of the laws! It is up to the inspector to decide if it is safe or not! The manufacturer overrides all state safety laws!! In PA if your tail pipe does not go past the body-line it fails but show me one car that was built and does go past the body line! Don't cite ones that have been replaced or changed! I can fail a truck on SI if it is missing the tailgate or rear bumper unless GM built and sold it that way!

2. Go ahead and file a class action lawsuit! Do you think GM will lose any money? I cite the lawsuit over the gas tanks. GM lost that suit their punishment wa they had to send all truck owner in the lawsuit a coupon go for 1000 dollars towards there next purchase of a GM! What did GM lose! They got to sell you a new truck or you never used your coupon!

3. Its a truck not a Lexus! This truck is built for working not for driving around and wanting it to feel like your Caddillac!!

4. Some customers I am not saying you, have unreal expectations when it comes to their truck. Some people can never be pleased no matter how hard you try! Once the owner is convinced their is a problem with his truck no matter what we do it is still a problem!! If we take you in 10 other trucks and they do the same thing what makes you think that you have a problem?

5. We didn't build them, design them or engineer them! It is not the dealer's fault we have to figure out how to fix them! Why must you blame the dealer when you don't like your truck?

6. Instead of complaining about the truck trade it in on another truck! Wouldn't this send a message to GM when no one is buying the trucks?
Atech
Member
Posts 3
08-01-03 04:52 PM - Post#253378    

Forgot this!

About the dealers using the goodwill policy adjustment for out of warranty repairs! It is called GOODWILL to reward loyal GM customers. Not someone who only comes in for warranty work once a year! Yes we do other work besides warranty work. It is our way of rewards the loyal customers!!

Do you know you can attract more bees with honey? Try being nice and polite instead of mean nasty and yelling at us! We tend not to do 150% for you this way! We only have to do 100% we don't need to bend over backwards to please you if you are screaming at us!! If you go somewhere and start screaming, ranting and raving they have the right to refuse to work on your truck and ask you to leave! Wouldn't it be in your best interest To be nice?
Anonymous


08-01-03 05:37 PM - Post#253379    

Well, the only thing one can remotely take away from that post is "the so called state inspector can be subjective" one could only hope... Go figure.
Anyway, we are talking parking brakes here... Whether a Lexus, Cadillac, Toyota, Ford, School bus, Crane, Aircraft, the list could go on and on.... When you set the parking brake the - "fill in the blank" - does not move/roll. Many of us GM truck owners don't have that "luxury". Now, common sense tells me state inspection laws are not equal, some states like MT don't even require inspections - thus its not a federal requirement. So, when my TX inspector writes me up for an inop parking brake I will be sure to "attempt" to inform him that GM designed it that way thus its not a discrepency... I'm sure he will reconsider after those words of wisdom...
Inop parking brake, Piston slap - it just doesn't matter. You could take me to every truck in the lot, all their parking brakes may not hold or all engines may knock. Should that be telling me I don't have a problem or should it be telling GM they do?? (your probably not the person I would ask that question - though most honest reps I know would say GM!) These issues are not rocket science - I was a GM mechanic for 8 years, neither issue is/are "normal", then or now..
Atech
Member
Posts 3
08-02-03 04:08 PM - Post#253380    

Mechanic is a broad term!! What kind of work did you do? Not all mechanics are equal such as having
"A" tech
"B" tech
"C" tech
"D" tech
"LUBE" tech

Which one where you?

Just remember you have state DOT and you have Federal DOT!
Cars and trucks are built to federal guidelines not the state and thus override the state laws!!

I didn't say that I liked the way the parking brake works but I have no control over it and I cannot redesign it! I am an mechanic not an engineer! Don't take it out on the dealership, the techs it is not our fault!! Your problems lie with GM we are doing our jobs the best we can with what we have!!
tibbitts
Senior Member
Posts 125
08-02-03 04:38 PM - Post#253381    

Atech,

I'm not sure if you were responding to my post specifically, but as I said I'll be satisfied with my dealer, assuming the promised check eventually shows up. I was never really unhappy with the dealer, just with GM policies.

I don't see the cadillac comparison - every car should have a parking brake that holds the vehicle. It's not a luxury.

I am not a professional mechanic or inspector, but doubt that inspectors have that much leeway. They might be able to disqualify a car for something not covered by the regs, but I doubt they have authority to "ok" a car that violates the regulations. I do believe that state laws can supercede federal laws, as those who in the past have attempted to buy and/or register "49 state" vehicles in California have discovered.

Paul
97_cHeVy
Senior Member
Posts 252
97_cHeVy
08-02-03 05:00 PM - Post#253382    

umm...to alieviate some of the obivious tension that has come about in these posts id like to ask one question to lighten the mood: how many times has the word brake been used here?!?! Parking break, emergency brake, primary brake...jeez guys GIVE ME A BREAK!!! lol


Ben
1999 GMC Z71 Classic

Ben

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-02-03 06:41 PM - Post#253383    

In reply to:

Wanted everyone to know that the servicing dealer contacted us and is going to refund the money we paid for the parking brake repair




Glad to hear that, Paul. It's definitely something you should not have been charged for.
.

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-02-03 06:52 PM - Post#253384    

In reply to:

Well I have read this topic and I need to respond to some things that I have read here!!




I think you're taking this too personally. I don't recall anyone here blaming the techs working on the vehicle, just the design.

If you work for a chevy store, you and I both know that there have been problems with the parking brake on the C/K trucks. Can it be fixed? Absolutely, without a doubt. I know for a fact I can take any one of these trucks and repair the parking brake so that it will hold the truck securely on an incline without moving. Will it last? That's something I have no control over.
.

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
09-03-03 08:40 AM - Post#253385    

Finally encouraged the dealer to refund our costs on the E-brake. The service writer did admit that it might be a recall and the district would approve repairing it.
The main problem is that I send my wife in and told here to have it fixed on a prior service, they claimed it was OK. Shame I have to go there and tell them how to fix stuff.

Yes, I do expect that the E-brake will slow the truck down at 70 miles an hour. Sure when we were kids we did it on the streets for fun and I can't imagine why it could have changed in 30 years.

Yes, I do expect that SAFETY be enforced more. I went to the funeral of a 12 year old because of lack of safety a few weeks ago. Tell me how you can undo that? Just don't think safety you need to do it!
dcarey
Contributor
Posts 911
09-03-03 09:29 AM - Post#253386    

I put my parking/emergency brake to the floor (cause it goes there), and it holds the vehicle prefectly still (1000 RPMs). I haven't tried it above that. If your brake ain't holding, nobody could convince me that it is normal.I certainly couldn't convince Mr. Virginia state vehicle inspector either!
Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4

Alex D
Member
Posts 12
09-05-03 10:41 AM - Post#253387    

Suburbans are made in Mexico or Janesville, Wisconsin
Quote:

Where is the Suburban made? My truck has a Union sticker from the U.S., but I can't remember which state



techteam
Member
Posts 4
09-10-03 12:28 PM - Post#253388    

I would be for this also. I just had to pay over $300 to have mine replaced. It has only been used TWICE. BOTH times when the dealer performed the inspection! Nobody drives my truck and I had never pressed it. It simply failed and they admitted they have had ALOT of them on a 2000 Silverado
techteam
Member
Posts 4
09-10-03 12:33 PM - Post#253389    

After reading the service managers here..it has me wondering if the dealer doing the inspection is not the one who broke the brake? As part of the inspection I watched them put the vehicle in drive with the brake one, put it in drive and give it gas to see if it moves. This sounds like something that you would not want to do and something it was NOT designed to do? Am I missing something?
dcarey
Contributor
Posts 911
09-10-03 12:47 PM - Post#253390    

Techetam. Since most inspection stations do not have gravity boxes, trailers or inclines to test them on, how exactly are they supposed to know if the parking/emergency brake will hold under any sort of load. This is why it is common practice to engage the brake and gun it to make sure it holds. It's the only means avaliable to them.
Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4

Anonymous


11-22-03 06:59 AM - Post#253391    

Just tested my parking brake in my 2001 Tahoe. It doesn't work. Here is Virginia inspection law related to the parking brake.
http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+reg+19VAC30-70-90
ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
11-22-03 04:56 PM - Post#253392    

We had a non-working parking brake on our '01 Tahoe as well...took it in to the dealer, they fixed it, no problem. Something to do with a retaining clip that caused premature wear on the e-brake shoes.

There must be some real shady GM service shops out there. I can't believe these people could look someone straight in the eye and tell them an e-brake pedal that sinks to the floor is "normal".

Take it up with the zone office...
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

Rich57
Deceased Member
Posts 803
Rich57
11-23-03 05:56 PM - Post#253393    

When I bought my '99 silverado new the parking brake did not work well at all. I took almost no foot pressure to push the pedal to the floor. Since I hardly ever use the parking brake I left it that way until about 60,000 miles. Then I discovered it didn't work at all. Took it to a dealership and he wanted $$$$ to replace both rear rotors as the e-brake portion was worn badly. The mechanic told me aside there were many problems similar to mine and Chevrolet was changing the design. Without mentioning the mechanic I screamed at the service manager that I might have been hurt or worse and demanded that Chevrolet foot the bill. It worked, no charge to me and also a free rental car for 2 days. The new brakes feel much more solid when pushed on, a big difference. Rich
mmm

jmchevy
Senior Member
Posts 211
jmchevy
11-23-03 07:15 PM - Post#253394    

The parking brake on my 02 doesnt feel like my old cars, but it does hold my truck when applied. Im not one to use a parking brake often, in fact I never set it when parked level in any of my vehicles (all are automatics). I did learn a long time ago about "torque lock", while working at a gas station, more than once I had to help somebody parked on an incline with just the parking pawl holding. Luckily though, Ive never had to touch the parking brake while driving, in fact in 25 years of driving my only brake failure was years ago on a 70 C-10 when a rusty brake line let go. I still had enough brake to stop, thank God for 2 part master cylinders.
I agree with the techs, in my experiance Ive done alot better at local dealerships by not losing my cool. I am the parts room manager in a company owned service garage, so I I can see both sides. Ive seen my share of 'customers' that complain no matter what we do or how much we try to help. Ive seen mechanics called stupid, and much worse. And this is dealing with their company vehicles, Id hate to have to service their private ones. Ive been mad myself when dealing with garages, especially when I take a vehicle to them and it doesnt get fixed the first time. But remember techs are human too. Breakdowns are frustrating, but that goes along with owning an automobile. Man has yet to build one that doesnt break down sometime or another, foreign or domestic. Just too many moving parts and electronics to fail. And, like some of you, I have found that some dealers are more helpful than others at getting things done. One of our 2 local Chevy dealers always follow a service with a phone call to see if their customers are satisfied.(guess which one I go to) If anything wasnt right I dont fail to tell them, and they seem to be concerned. I guess Ive been lucky, never had a major problems or complaints. Just my 2 cents.
02 Silverado Z71 87 El Camino

Anonymous


11-24-03 04:29 PM - Post#253395    

I happen to work for the company that makes the pedal and cables for the Silverados, Tahoes, Suburbans, etc. Hopefully I can clear up a few questions.

First off, cars and trucks are designed to the federal standard FMVSS135. This states that a vehicle must hold on a 20 percent grade (about 17 degrees) with the trans in neutral with a pedal effort of less than 112 pounds. This is also done at max GVW.

This test is done without the help of the service brake. Also notice that there is no travel requirement. The Silverado holds on a 20 percent with 45-50 pounds of pedal force. It takes about 60-65 pounds to put the pedal to the floor. While this is much lighter than other vehicles, this is how the system is designed.

I am not sure about the wear of the drum-in-hat shoes though. It sounds like there may be a problem there.

While these are "self adjust" parking brake systems (meaning that the pedal has a spring in it to keep the cables tensioned), the rear cables can be adjusted. If you look in front of the left rear tire, you will see a threaded rod on the cables. This can be tightened to increase the pedal load. Be sure not to over tighten this or you will cause brake drag. Make sure that the tires will still rotate freely.

Enough babbling for now. If anyone has any questions about this parking brake system, let me know and I should be able to help you out.

couple goats
Member
Posts 7
02-28-04 02:01 PM - Post#253396    

Yes , I have some questions, thank you. I just bought a "00 Suburban.

I load the GTO on the trailer with the parking brake on and the trans in neutral, so I really NEED the parking brake to work. From what read on this thread I can replace the pads and clip and all is fine...or no? If that's all it is then I'll go through the extra maintainance.....I should get faster each time right?

Also, I've searched for the vibration problem and not found much. ( I am challenged sometimes though!) Steady vib at highway speeds...what's the fix? I've read alot of complaining, not much on curing. I just want it to run right...how do I fix it?
Thanks much, Bill
Anonymous


02-28-04 09:00 PM - Post#253397    

I still have to say that the expectations for some owners here are high. I know its been said, but being the person I am, i will say it again. If you expect the P brake to bring you to a stop from 60 mph, good luck, and I will see you at the wrecking yard after your truck hits the center median.

The Parking Brake is meant to hold the vehicle in place while PARKED. Im glad that we have gotten past that phase.

Put your truck in Drive, apply the P Brake...and relase your normal brakes. If the truck doesnt move, good. Give it little gas, and it shouldnt move. If it doesnt, Great. Your parking brake is working fine.

Should your normal brakes fail (which shouldnt happen if you keep up the maintence), downshift as much as you can, and let the parking brake finsh the job. That is all its basically meant for.
Ryan
Senior Member
Posts 432
02-29-04 04:15 AM - Post#253398    

well said
Ta Hoe
Member
Posts 2
03-01-04 05:28 AM - Post#253399    

I have a '00 Tahoe and an '03 Suburban, I have noticed their emergency breaks need to be adjusted, but I have never had an issue. My dealer just does it when I have it in for oil changes.
Z53Bel
Senior Member
Posts 321
Z53Bel
03-25-04 11:14 AM - Post#253400    

I don't know if you have seen this, but I mentioned this issue to my dealer here in Texas last week. He said the same story about wear and tear (by the way, I have never used the parking brake yet) and that I couldn't get my vehicle inspection renewed if I didn't spend several hundred $'s on having this serviced! Well, let's just say, it didn't smell right and I left.
After reading the posts here, it concerncs me of a potential catch 22. If the state of Texas performs a test that engages the parking brake, puts the truck in drive and see's if it holds,then all of us are going to fail the test. Yet, if the user manual states that the parking brake is not for this purpose... well I think you see where I am going here.
Has anyone had this expierence yet?
Just starting on my 53 Bel Air restoration, still!
235 3spd 4dr

tsbrewers
Member
Posts 77
03-28-04 05:24 PM - Post#253401    

Well, I have two 2k silverado's. One seems fine the other's parking brake might as well be removed from the truck.

My driveway has a very slight incline on it. TWICE i have had the truck roll in to the street after I parked it, and both times I had the truck in Park and the parking brake on. Dealer says nothing is wrong. We have about 70 of these trucks through out the company and I have heard of this happening to at least 10 of them.

Brew
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
03-28-04 05:53 PM - Post#253402    

10 trucks that roll when in park AND the parking brake is on? I'm sorry but I don't believe it.

I have NEVER seen one that didn't hold in park unless there was a major and obvious problem that shouldn't be ignored and I've seen thousands of trucks and cars go through our service department in 35 years in the business.
.

'00Z
Member
Posts 10
03-30-04 05:10 AM - Post#253403    

I have a 2000 Z71 and the parking brake has NEVER worked properly. I have to go through the routine of TRYING to get it inspected every year and just hope they don't test it. It has NEVER worked right and I have been told by MANY shops that they see this problem all the time with these models. GM get a clue, it is a defect! Oh, the reason it isn't fixed is the outrageous price they want to do it. PLEASE! Quit being cheap and put some real tailgate cables on also while you are at it.


GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
03-30-04 06:05 AM - Post#253404    

Quote:

Quit being cheap and put some real tailgate cables on also while you are at it.




There is a recall forthcoming on the tailgate support cables.
.

CaptainK
Senior Member
Posts 8242
CaptainK
03-30-04 06:59 AM - Post#253405    

Quote:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quit being cheap and put some real tailgate cables on also while you are at it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



There is a recall forthcoming on the tailgate support cables.




Speaking of which, have you heard yet if they are going to include the late model year 99's (new body style) in this recall? I would imagine that they all use the same cables.
'99 Silverado (NBS)

'00Z
Member
Posts 10
03-30-04 08:56 AM - Post#253406    

Thanks GM-Tech.

websocket
Member
Posts 1
08-09-04 10:02 AM - Post#253407    

2001 Suburban 39k miles failed Texas vehicle inspection today for: Parking brake will not hold the vehicle in place when, with the engine running, the vehicle is placed in forward gear and the engine is accelerated enough to cause a pull on the braking mechanism.
. Contected dealer, they asked if I have been being it in for 15k adjustments. What! This will be the seventh time its been in the shop for repairs. And people wonder why...
mray
Member
Posts 18
08-09-04 12:18 PM - Post#253408    

67000 miles on my 00 GMC 3/4ton 4x4. I use the parking brake every time I park, (habit) and it works very well. I have been using my parking brake on pickups for the past 30 years. And if they don't work for some reason, I fix them. simple as that. Try driving a manual trans for a while. U learn to use the parking brake or have to shut the motor off every time you get out.
BowtieBonanza
Senior Member
Posts 174
BowtieBonanza
08-09-04 03:05 PM - Post#253409    

My parking brake lever might as well not even be there. It doesn't work, nor does it feel like it works when you push it in.
--Jonathan

'07 Silverado 1500 5.3 2WD Ext Cab Reg Bed

-RIP 3/17/2007-
'00 Silverado 1500 5.3 2WD
Flowmaster 3" Single Exhaust
K&N Intake
Wester's 89/93 Dual Tune

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
08-11-04 07:57 AM - Post#253410    

Wow! 4400+ views. HOPEFULLY they all CHECK their parking brake. I don't care what you call it but it MUST DO SOMETHING! Otherwise it is useless weight now isn't it? If it does nothing as some so called techs claim then how can they explain it's function? Good looks?

As the story goes. My wife and I contact the dealer and write a complaint to GM. The area warranty tech agreed that since there was a defect in the clips of that model they would finally refund our half grand spent to get the parking brake fixed. Thank you GM but only after we threaten a class action suit. After the truck was fixed the brake pedal went down about half way and we were able to pass the state inspection every year since. We finally felt safe when launching our boat on the ramp. We felt safe leaving our truck on a slope where someone might pass by. I never wanted to be a (blank) about the whole thing. I never heard such manure about something that is such a simple safety feature. That feature has been mandatory on cars and trucks for over 60 years.

Again Please check your parking brake. It is a safety feature and needs to be used and be functional.


While we are at it can we get the $42 we spent on replacement tailgate cables? OOOHHH. After we buy them we find they are faulty too. Dunno why my wife wanted a new GM after all that?
Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-11-04 08:04 AM - Post#253411    

Heh, GM will never change some things. My old Century and this Caprice have lousy parking brakes too.

My mom's Taurus had a pedal that went to the floor. I advanced the shoes on the drums by turning the star wheel, and tightened the cable a bit, and now it goes maybe halfway to the floor, before being perfectly engaged. I would never want to drive a car without a good back-up system, especially with these electronically controlled brakes.
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

Akamatsu
Senior Member
Posts 110
08-11-04 08:57 AM - Post#253412    

Quote:

67000 miles on my 00 GMC 3/4ton 4x4. I use the parking brake every time I park




3/4 Ton vehicles have a much better(and standard for years) design on the parking brake. 2 shoes per side. The trucks that have the problems are the 1500 series with a single shoe per side(looks like a horseshoe, one piece). I tinkered for a long time to get my parking brake working. It has been good(well, at least working) for almost a year now. The design on the 1/2 ton parking brake just plain sucks. One little clip that holds the whole shoe in a centered position. Has a huge tendency to sag, causing the shoe to ride against the drum.
transman618
Senior Member
Posts 839
transman618
08-11-04 09:55 AM - Post#253413    

>> The Parking Brake MUST by state law hold the vehicle. It must hold if you have an AT or Standard tranny. It is a safety part <<

That law is designed for the OWNER of the vehicle. That he/she maintain the parking brakes operation. Its NOT meant for GM or any other car manufacturer to guarantee the parking brakes operation for the life of the vehicle. Thats the owners job.


transman
GM MASTER TECHNICIAN
SR. TRANSMISSION BUILDER


Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-11-04 11:35 AM - Post#253414    

Quote:

>> The Parking Brake MUST by state law hold the vehicle. It must hold if you have an AT or Standard tranny. It is a safety part <<

That law is designed for the OWNER of the vehicle. That he/she maintain the parking brakes operation. Its NOT meant for GM or any other car manufacturer to guarantee the parking brakes operation for the life of the vehicle. Thats the owners job.


transman



Sad that GM abandons its customers, and sticks them with such a lousy design. No wonder people are buying Lexus vehicles. If you truly stand by that design, and tell me that in no way if GM at fault for this...how can you call yourself a master technician?

This is so silly to argue about. Why can't GM spend some money and actually help its customers out? You can't keep looking out for the bottom line. It'll cost MORE in warranty work/legal fees down the road.

There was a very good article in the Wall Street Journal recently about Toyota. It contained snippets from the Preisdent in Japan talking about the quality of Toyota dropping off. He is very, very upset about it, and I would be too. I hope this article is read by the entire auto community.

I don't want anymore over-paid, non-motivated American workers putting my vehicle I pay an arm and leg for together. Oh yes, and even if there is one or two assembly line workers who give a care (There certainly are), there is no way they will be listened to with the American corporate ideology. I hope Toyota tears through GM, and passes them in sales. Ford already was kicked in the face, and I hope GM is next. I won't take this any longer. It's sad. It really is.

It's called SERVICE. Learn it.
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
08-11-04 11:41 AM - Post#253415    

Quote:


That law is designed for the OWNER of the vehicle. That he/she maintain the parking brakes operation. Its NOT meant for GM or any other car manufacturer to guarantee the parking brakes operation for the life of the vehicle. Thats the owners job.




Not even the life of the vehicle. The owner shouldn't have to take care of a defective design. These things fail even during the warranty period. NHTSA should make GM recall all of these and replace the parking brake system with a better design.
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
08-11-04 11:45 AM - Post#253416    

I must have been confused by the word "brake". I wonder what GM thinks that means?
"n : a brake operated by hand; usually operates by mechanical linkage"
Or
"brake1 ( P ) Pronunciation Key (brk)
n.
A device for slowing or stopping motion, as of a vehicle, especially by contact friction.
Something that slows or stops action.

v. braked, brak·ing, brakes
v. tr.
To reduce the speed of with or as if with a brake.

v. intr.
To operate or apply a brake.
To be slowed or stopped by or as if by the operation of a brake. "

Quoted from dictionary.com as printed in The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company
Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-11-04 12:00 PM - Post#253417    

When my friend took his Volvo in for warranty work, they washed his car for him, and vaccumed it out. They were quick, corteous, and did not give us a hard time at all.

Do you know what Ford did to my mother when we brought our Taurus in there for a simple fix of the BOO switch? They took the wheels off, did a diagnostic test, and took 3 hours more than they told us it would take. Not only did they waste our time, but they didn't even properly torque the lug nuts down properly. GM and Ford have a lot of work to do...and I am not the only person that is about ready to lose faith, and give up. The dealers are as much a mess, as the corporation itself.
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-11-04 12:42 PM - Post#253418    

Quote:

When my friend took his Volvo in for warranty work, they washed his car for him, and vaccumed it out. They were quick, corteous, and did not give us a hard time at all.





This has nothing whatsoever to do with the brand of vehicle or the manufacturer. This is a product of the management of the facility, starting at the very top with the owner.

There are plenty of Chevy dealers that will give you the same service as that Volvo dealer, and some may even do better. And I'm sure there are plenty of Volvo dealers that will screw you royally.

The problem is the general attitude of the American worker, and every one of you (and me) are a part of that. You think only the automotive industry has this problem? Hello! Time to wake up out there. I see it all the time in the lousy service I get in just about every business.
.

ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
08-11-04 12:51 PM - Post#253419    

Quote:

The problem is the general attitude of the American worker, and every one of you (and me) are a part of that. You think only the automotive industry has this problem? Hello! Time to wake up out there. I see it all the time in the lousy service I get in just about every business.




Ain't that the truth...just spent $4200 for a new A/C unit/coil install at the house, only to spend 4 hours rewiring the work they did so the furnace didn't kick on with the A/C!

Which is why I simply do most of my own maintenance, whether it's a minor truck problem under warranty, plumbing, or whatever: Nobody has greater interest in getting a problem fixed RIGHT than the owner.

Folks in the trade complain when us "DIYers" infringe into their "livelihoods" by doing things ourselves. It should come as no surprise why some of us go down that road. I've been screwed too many times by so-called "professionals" with shoddy work practices and questionable skills.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-11-04 12:59 PM - Post#253420    

Quote:

Quote:

When my friend took his Volvo in for warranty work, they washed his car for him, and vaccumed it out. They were quick, corteous, and did not give us a hard time at all.





This has nothing whatsoever to do with the brand of vehicle or the manufacturer. This is a product of the management of the facility, starting at the very top with the owner.

There are plenty of Chevy dealers that will give you the same service as that Volvo dealer, and some may even do better. And I'm sure there are plenty of Volvo dealers that will screw you royally.

The problem is the general attitude of the American worker, and every one of you (and me) are a part of that. You think only the automotive industry has this problem? Hello! Time to wake up out there. I see it all the time in the lousy service I get in just about every business.



I do not think I have a problem at all. I pay good money for a product, and I expect it to work well. I am in sales, and I treat my customers with respect, because they like that. I get repeat business because of it, and I am proud of it.

Recently I had some paper shipped to an account, and the idiotic shipping company stacked one pallet on top of the other, crushing the paper boxes on the bottom. The account called me and was very upset (They should be). I called up the paper manufacturer who is coming out tomorrow, and we are going to visit the account and replace the boxes free of charge. No call tags, no pain in the butt phone tag.

THAT is service, and that is what should happen every time a sale is made, no matter what it is. If I cannot get service, I will gladly go somewhere else. I have no time for this, and there is nobody that doesn't like to be serviced.
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

Mike C
Member
Posts 30
08-11-04 02:06 PM - Post#253421    

GM's answer to this problem. Lets go back to drum brakes in the rear for 2005.
2002 Z71 ECSB LT Westers massaged PCM Magnaflow cat-back

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-11-04 02:07 PM - Post#253422    

Quote:

I do not think I have a problem at all.




I was generalizing when I said "you". I didn't mean you personally. There are plenty of people that love their job and do it to the best of their ability and care about the customer.

But you do have an idiotic shipping company, so you see, it even affects you... Just as some idiotic dealers out there give the manufacturer a bad name.
.

dav4x4
Member
Posts 19
08-11-04 02:21 PM - Post#253423    

2000 sierra 1500 parking brake has not worked since ive had it, over a year now. got it inspected today for the 2nd time since i owned it. luckly it passed this time
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-11-04 03:15 PM - Post#253424    

Quote:

parking brake has not worked since ive had it, over a year now. got it inspected today for the 2nd time since i owned it. luckly it passed this time




Not much of an inspection there.
.

dav4x4
Member
Posts 19
08-11-04 03:39 PM - Post#253425    

by the looks of these post; not much of an inspection in a lot of places
Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-11-04 06:05 PM - Post#253426    

Quote:

by the looks of these post; not much of an inspection in a lot of places



All the independent shops who perform inspections do things however they want. Many of them skip over spots such as parking brake and horn around here.
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

Anonymous


08-11-04 09:06 PM - Post#253427    

I've never heard of any Texas inspection station checking the parking brake. Apparently, the parking brake is being worn somehow...If its happening to few trucks, its a problem with the owner. If theres a problem on almost every truck produced, then it can be a manufacturing defect.

First off, Owners. Take care of your truck. Im sure theres something your doing that is making them wear out prematurely...Dont try driving with it on, and always make sure its completely off. Dont try to slam it on at 60 MPH and expect it to stop the truck...you will and i repeat...YOU WILL end up taking out a guardrail, a tree, bush, or even another vehicle. Parking brake is used for one thing...PARKING. Only time it is used when moving is when your main service brakes go out due to neglection, and still yet you dont slam it on...you slowly apply it as you hold the release out.

Secondly, GM and Chevy Dealers. If you know that there is a manufacturing defect in the vehicle, let the customer know...It doesnt do any good to you, the Chevy Dealer, Chevrolet, and/or GM to have one tech say that there is nothing wrong when something really is wrong. If something is wrong, Fix it...or let the owner of the vehicle know.


Im not choosing sides here as you can see. As for the 2005 Rear Drums...I wouldnt be surprised...that design has never failed me, or many owners of the 88-98 trucks with the rear drums. Adjustment is easy...Start it, reverse, take it to 20-30 MPH, slam on the brakes. You cant do that with Discs, and this design will most likely help the truck with the parking brake problems as so many have stated. Sometimes you need to go back to the basics to get stuff right, and drum/discs are basic.


GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-12-04 01:29 AM - Post#253428    

Quote:

Secondly, GM and Chevy Dealers. If you know that there is a manufacturing defect in the vehicle, let the customer know




There is definitely a problem with the clip that holds the parking brake shoes. It allows the shoes to contact the drum, wearing out the shoes even if you've never used the parking brake. Then when you try to use it, it barely holds if at all. It seems unlikely someone could drive very far with the parking brake on to cause this problem. You'd have to be blind AND deaf. That dinging and light flashing would get anyone's attention.

This is an easy fix and a properly working parking brake on these trucks works just fine. I can apply one, put it in gear and give it a good amount of throttle and the truck will not move at all.
.

BauhausNova
Senior Member
Posts 443
08-12-04 03:04 AM - Post#253429    

Having replaced several sets of 1500 parking brake bands on the GMT800; unless I am missing something here: there is NO way to adjust the parking brakes on those trucks without removing the rotors
1965 Chevy Impala Sedan.........soon.

xlong4x4
Senior Member
Posts 330
08-12-04 03:52 AM - Post#253430    

Wow that's a lot of information. I thought I'd throw my hat in the ring since I seem to be the only one with the condition.

#1 MINE WORKS GREAT. I use is every time I get out of the driver's seat, I have since I started driving(I also turn my lights on). If I forget I have it on, the truck doesn't move.

Last month I got into a campground really late. I left the truck running on the sloped driveway with the camper loaded and the boat in tow. When I got back in the truck, I realized I had left the truck in drive. I easily could have walked out of the office to find my truck buried in the trees at the bottom of a hill.

#2 DEALER SERVICE IS UP TO THE DEALER. My cars have been cleaned inside and out at no charge during regular service by Edmark Chevrolet in Nampa, Idaho and Les Schwab on Broadway in Boise. Dave Smith Motors in Wallace, Idaho put us in a motel, sent us to the movies, bought several meals, and paid for our tram tickets to the top of Silver Mountain while they inspected a recently traded in truck. In the end, they wouldn't sell it to me even if I wanted it because of the severity of the problems.
2000 (OBS)K3500 Crew Cab Dually. 7.4L, Auto, 4.10
1991 3.1L Corsica (170k)

nc_04z71
Senior Member
Posts 107
08-12-04 05:18 AM - Post#253431    

Has GM done anything to fix this problem with the '04's? After reading this post I decided to test my parking brake on about a 30 degree inclined hill. I applied the parking brake and pulled the transmission down in Neutral and it never moved. I only have 1100 miles on the truck so it may not be a problem yet. I'll check it again when i've got about 20K.
Lucky13MN
Special Senior Member
Posts 5592
Lucky13MN
08-12-04 05:19 AM - Post#253432    

My '01 with 60,000 miles is just fine...
2001 Silverado:
  • S&B Intake
  • Corsa Exhaust
  • Z06 Cam
  • Air Bags
  • HP Tuners
  • A 'few' other things

ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
08-12-04 05:20 AM - Post#253433    

Quote:

I've never heard of any Texas inspection station checking the parking brake.




Maybe it's a regional thing...I've never NOT had it checked here in North Texas, and we're talking at least six vehicles in a 10-year span. Maybe you've just never noticed!
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
08-12-04 09:28 AM - Post#253434    

Quote:

you slowly apply it as you hold the release out.





What release? GM Trucks and most cars use a foot type that has to be engaged (at whatever speed) and pressed again to FULLY release. There is no in-between like a hand brake.
WVRidgeRunner
Very Senior Member
Posts 2159
WVRidgeRunner
08-12-04 10:27 AM - Post#253435    

Quote:

What release? GM Trucks and most cars use a foot type that has to be engaged (at whatever speed) and pressed again to FULLY release. There is no in-between like a hand brake.




Huh? My truck has a foot brake and hand release...

The Olds Alero's I have in my fleet all have hand brakes...

Anyway, earlier somebody mentioned that the 3/4 ton's had a diferent set-up. Must be, mine works just fine... I also drive a 2500 Yukon sometimes at work, it works fine as well, even with a very heavy trailer latched on. I use the parking brake to keep from "Torque-Locking" the tranny when parked on a slope...

Learned that at a very young age of 16. I was pulling my grandpa's dozer on a 5th wheel trailer behind his spiffy new 1984 3/4 ton Chevy (Yes, it was SEVERELY overloaded...). I pulled up at the job site and flipped it in park, let off the brake and got out...

Time to move the truck, it wouldn't come out of park... Had to have an end loader push on the trailer in order to get it out of park...

My grandpa sure was ticked...
WV Ridge Runner
- 05 Impala LS
- 03 Black Silverado 2500HD 4X4 LB CC LT
- 93 S-10 4X4 Blazer (Tahoe LT)
- 79 Monte Carlo
- Harleys, 4-Wheelers, etc...
- New! 07 Cobalt

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
08-12-04 11:12 AM - Post#253436    

Quote:


Huh? My truck has a foot brake and hand release...





My bad...I remember it has the foot brake and hand release. I now remember how fast that thing comes up if you aren't careful; wacked my hand once, ouch.

I know my Malibu and the Buick Century and the Pontiac Grand Am have only the foot brake.
transman618
Senior Member
Posts 839
transman618
08-12-04 11:36 AM - Post#253437    

>> Sad that GM abandons its customers, and sticks them with such a lousy design. No wonder people are buying Lexus vehicles. If you truly stand by that design, and tell me that in no way if GM at fault for this...how can you call yourself a master technician?
<<

If the vehicle was still under warranty then they should repair it. Are you saying that GM is responsible for every parking brake on every GM vehicle made ?? I have a 55 Chevrolet, Is GM responsible for my parking brake on my 55..??? NO, I am responsible for its operation. Where does it end ??? How far back do you want them to go ?? If I recall right. Most states have LAWS that state headlights must be operational or you can be cited....Or even fail a state inspection. Is GM responsible for the customers headlight just because there is a state law that says it should be operational. No, I as the owner am responsible for my headlights, to make sure they are operational and in compliance with state law. Honda, for example, found defects in some models of their automatic transmissions. They in turn increased their warrantys to 100k on these models. Do you expect them to give lifetime warranties on them ??

>> Why can't GM spend some money and actually help its customers out? <<

Again, how far do you expect them to go ?? If the vehicle is still under warranty, they should be responsible for repairing it.

>> You can't keep looking out for the bottom line. <<

Somebody has to. If GM goes under, who is going to pay for future warranty work on new vehicles ??

>> No wonder people are buying Lexus vehicles. <<

I hate to burst your bubble, but even Lexus has their own problems. ALL car manufacturers do.



How can I call myself a Master technician? Easy.
21 years of hard work, studying, testing, investing my own money in training and refresher courses, over $100,000.00 invested in specialty tools and equipment so I can PROPERLY diagnose and repair my customers transmissions in a timely manner to get them back on the road ALL with a LESS than 1% come back rate......Is that enough, or do I need to go on????


transman
GM MASTER TECHNICIAN
SR. TRANSMISSION BUILDER


No_Floaters
Member
Posts 2
08-12-04 01:38 PM - Post#253438    

I climbed under my truck after the parking brake quit holding it in our driveway. It's a little steep. I didn't want the transmission parking pawl (right words?) to have to hold the truck. The cables has no adjustment left. It was from the factory like this. The garage I took it to loosened the cable adjustments under the truck & the dash. It was OK after that.
'99 Silverado X-Cab Z-71

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
08-12-04 02:17 PM - Post#253439    

Quote:

The cables has no adjustment left. It was from the factory like this.




This is the way they all are and the way it's supposed to be.
.

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
08-12-04 05:53 PM - Post#253440    

Transman618,

Its all about design. It is agreed that they have a poor design that causes the failure of the parking brake. Therefore, it should be treated like a recall. If your headlamps overheated due to design and caused a fire, do you think that GM wouldn't be responsible? I hope not...There are laws in this country about manufacturers having to design safe products. I don't think a vehicle that can't hold itself is a safe vehicle. Whether or not the law agrees with me or not, I don't know.
ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
08-12-04 07:18 PM - Post#253441    

Well, like I've said before: Bitching and moaning and complaining about it here isn't going to move GM to tears over your problems. Yeah, the clips are bad. Yeah, it can be fixed (I've been through three different GM trucks with the problem, and every one has passed inspection after jumping through the necessary hoops). Does it suck? Yeah...so do something about it instead of whining about it here. In fact, I'll help y'all out:

http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

I've put my complaint in...three times for three different vehicles. At some point, the government might figure out that a failing parking brake is up there in catastrophic-producing defects like...a pair of defective tailgate cables!

Murdock and/or Captain K, do the right thing and close this thread...it's beginning to sound like a piston slap cryfest.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

BauhausNova
Senior Member
Posts 443
08-13-04 01:55 AM - Post#253442    

To whom it may concern:

If the Gov't does decide on a recall; it would not surprise me to see GM retrofit the 2005 rear drum brake setup and it ancillaries onto the 1999-94 1/2T Silverados.
1965 Chevy Impala Sedan.........soon.

glsable
Senior Member
Posts 475
08-13-04 04:16 AM - Post#253443    

Quote:

To whom it may concern:

If the Gov't does decide on a recall; it would not surprise me to see GM retrofit the 2005 rear drum brake setup and it ancillaries onto the 1999-94 1/2T Silverados.




no worries there! That would be way too expensive. Likely the fix would be a quick "adjustment" to get you back on the road and get the NHTSA off their back.
glsable
glsable
2003 K1500 Suburban LT
1993 Caprice wagon
1998 Volvo S70 Turbo

Lucky13MN
Special Senior Member
Posts 5592
Lucky13MN
08-13-04 04:21 AM - Post#253444    

Quote:

Murdock and/or Captain K, do the right thing and close this thread...it's beginning to sound like a piston slap cryfest.





Your request has been noted
2001 Silverado:
  • S&B Intake
  • Corsa Exhaust
  • Z06 Cam
  • Air Bags
  • HP Tuners
  • A 'few' other things

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
08-13-04 06:30 AM - Post#253445    

Quote:


Murdock and/or Captain K, do the right thing and close this thread...it's beginning to sound like a piston slap cryfest.




LOL!!! Its not that bad...yet...
Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-13-04 07:39 AM - Post#253446    

Quote:

>> Sad that GM abandons its customers, and sticks them with such a lousy design. No wonder people are buying Lexus vehicles. If you truly stand by that design, and tell me that in no way if GM at fault for this...how can you call yourself a master technician?
<<

If the vehicle was still under warranty then they should repair it. Are you saying that GM is responsible for every parking brake on every GM vehicle made ?? I have a 55 Chevrolet, Is GM responsible for my parking brake on my 55..??? NO, I am responsible for its operation. Where does it end ??? How far back do you want them to go ?? If I recall right. Most states have LAWS that state headlights must be operational or you can be cited....Or even fail a state inspection. Is GM responsible for the customers headlight just because there is a state law that says it should be operational. No, I as the owner am responsible for my headlights, to make sure they are operational and in compliance with state law. Honda, for example, found defects in some models of their automatic transmissions. They in turn increased their warrantys to 100k on these models. Do you expect them to give lifetime warranties on them ??

>> Why can't GM spend some money and actually help its customers out? <<

Again, how far do you expect them to go ?? If the vehicle is still under warranty, they should be responsible for repairing it.

>> You can't keep looking out for the bottom line. <<

Somebody has to. If GM goes under, who is going to pay for future warranty work on new vehicles ??

>> No wonder people are buying Lexus vehicles. <<

I hate to burst your bubble, but even Lexus has their own problems. ALL car manufacturers do.



How can I call myself a Master technician? Easy.
21 years of hard work, studying, testing, investing my own money in training and refresher courses, over $100,000.00 invested in specialty tools and equipment so I can PROPERLY diagnose and repair my customers transmissions in a timely manner to get them back on the road ALL with a LESS than 1% come back rate......Is that enough, or do I need to go on????


transman



From what I have been seeing, it looks like GM doesn't even want to consider this a problem (Indivdual techs and dealerships might, but that doesn't work). Many of these trucks with problems are still under warranty. Does GM's warranty run out after 7K miles now, or is that just when problems begin to happen?

My biggest gripe is how is this braking design even allowed to be shipped? Who honestly thinks this system is better than the previous system which worked great? Typical GM. They spend years and years testing and improving their product to near perfection, and then decide to just start all over again.

I hate drum brakes. Anybody who lives in a mountainous area can tell you how superior discs are to drum in regards to brake fade, and ease of repair. But if you use a lousy system, you should stick with what you do best, or test the system in a CONTROLLED environment. We're not all mechanics who have hours to spend on our vehicles fixing what the cheap manufacturer didn't want to fix, or have the know how or tools to do it.

This Caprice is a money pit. I just spent $300 fixing a leaking intake gasket. The only reason I keep it around is because the insurance is very low, and there are no payments on it. When this engine or transmission goes (again) it's going to the scrap yard. Maybe GM machines are made for mechanics. That's great, but I won't spend my hard earned money keeping one on the road (I can't even work on my car living in an apartment complex), especially when GM considers all my problems "normal" or "we could not find the problem".
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

CaptainK
Senior Member
Posts 8242
CaptainK
08-13-04 07:49 AM - Post#253447    

Quote:

Quote:

Murdock and/or Captain K, do the right thing and close this thread...it's beginning to sound like a piston slap cryfest.


LOL!!! Its not that bad...yet...





Hopefully it won't get to that point either . Keeping an eye out though
'99 Silverado (NBS)

Mudholes Z-71
Member
Posts 13
08-13-04 07:49 AM - Post#253448    

well boys, count me in on this one two! '01 Z-71 with 76+ and no parking brake!!
Mudhole www.OutdoorsLouisiana.com

steve v
Senior Member
Posts 988
steve v
08-13-04 11:55 AM - Post#253449    

c'mon guys, how hard is it to adjust or fix your parking brake? Sometimes you just gotta get your hands dirty or pay somebody else to get there's dirty. No big deal. There are many other things to be more concerned about than your parking brake.
silveradolsz7153
Senior Member
Posts 929
08-13-04 01:44 PM - Post#253450    

Mine's a 2000 with 46k on it parking brake worked fine until a couple of months ago. Ill be checking into the clips this fall. A question for the techs though. Is there not some drum brake setup from a smaller car (an old Chevette maybe) that would be small enough to retrofit an adjustable dual shoe setup in place of the single shoe p-brake while retaining the stock rotors? As far as GM retrofitting the '05 drums, it seems to me that it would be cheaper to retrofit the 2500 brakes instead...fewer parts in the system would need replacing.

Bill
If you don't like your job, don't go on strike. Just go in every day and do a really half a$$ed job. That's the American way----Homer Simpson

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
08-13-04 04:43 PM - Post#253451    

I disagree about closing this thread.
One is about a design issue that is unlikely to cause a death.
The other is about a design issue that can and may have caused damage or injury.

My original thread asked Chevytalk readers to check their parking brake. I think we all agree that some full sized models may have this clip problem. I can say that after the work was done my wifes truck's parking brake worked like it has on every other car and truck I have driven for the last 30 years. There is feedback on it's usage to the driver and there is results in its ability to prevent the truck from moving. That is all I want it to do. Nothing more and for sure nothing less.
2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
08-13-04 07:28 PM - Post#253452    

Quote:

c'mon guys, how hard is it to adjust or fix your parking brake? Sometimes you just gotta get your hands dirty or pay somebody else to get there's dirty. No big deal. There are many other things to be more concerned about than your parking brake.




For me, if I owned one, it would be impossible. I live in a community with an HOA and they forbid any car work. I would definitely balk at paying someone to repeatedly fix something which is admittedly a bad design.
BauhausNova
Senior Member
Posts 443
08-14-04 03:54 AM - Post#253453    

And:

On at least the 1500 series GMT800's; the wheel, caliper as well as the rotor all have to be removed to even access let alone adjust the parking brake.
GM technicians, correct me if I am wrong here
Besides; once in there, the parking brake band typically is already worn long with the 'drun' portion of the rotor being rippled and gouged
1965 Chevy Impala Sedan.........soon.

Majisto
Senior Member
Posts 131
08-14-04 07:26 AM - Post#253454    

Quote:

c'mon guys, how hard is it to adjust or fix your parking brake? Sometimes you just gotta get your hands dirty or pay somebody else to get there's dirty. No big deal. There are many other things to be more concerned about than your parking brake.



It's hard when you live in an apartment complex, and you don't have the know-how or the tools to fix it. Again, not everybody is a mechanic, nor wants to be. But I guess GMs are built for mechanics.

GM - Keeping the mechanic/technician profession profitable.
2000 Ford Explorer XLT 1986 Chevrolet Caprice Wagon - Olds 307 V-8 "We're all car guys at heart."

Z53Bel
Senior Member
Posts 321
Z53Bel
10-06-04 05:48 AM - Post#253455    

There is agreement to the fact that the design of the parking brake is not the best. I have a 2002 Avalanche and am now 2 months out of date on my inspection here in Texas due to this design flaw. I do not tow,park on hills, and do not even use my parking brake. Yet, set the brake, put it in Drive and away she goes. My 'usually good' dealer (North Austin)is denying there is a problem and wants me to pay to fix this. To even look at it, they want to be paid! I STRONGLY disagree with this. Your post implies that the fix is relativly simple, how about cost. Is there a reason a service department would avoid fixing such a gross safety flaw?
Thanks.
Just starting on my 53 Bel Air restoration, still!
235 3spd 4dr

ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
10-06-04 07:10 AM - Post#253456    

It almost seems to me that simply using the p-brake keeps it in working order. The p-brake on the '02 gets regular use, and works pretty well.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
10-06-04 11:15 AM - Post#253457    

My wife had that truck fixed in Lockhart. She went in for an inspection sticker and a few maint items. OK, with the so called warranty she paid $1400 for that didn't pay one cent she forked over almost $600. The rotors were something like $140 each and the pads were about $80 plus labor. There were some honest people in Lockhart that tipped her off to the faulty part.

Does GM need to be responsible for 1950's? Dunno. Is Ford paying on 1960's Mustangs. Yes. There is no limit on faulty design. Do you wish to put a limit on your child's safety? Sadly a few local kids were killed in Pinto's. It should take a death to force good, professional, and sound judgement. There are a lot of good UAW workers that know everyday that what they build can be better. I am sure that there are also tech's and managers that wish to build the best quality product. They need to get HOT right now. Look at the falling sales numbers. The big three will be soon the big san-ban desu.
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
10-06-04 01:54 PM - Post#253458    

Quote:

Your post implies that the fix is relativly simple, how about cost. Is there a reason a service department would avoid fixing such a gross safety flaw?





I guess since you're replying to some past post of mine, this is directed at me.

I don't know cost off hand. Not even ballpark. I'd have to go to the parts counter and ask and I'm at home right now.

I'm not sure about the avoiding fixing part. You said they would, for a price? I guess you meant they're avoiding fixing it for free?

As for what the reason may be why a service department would avoid fixing this...I'm not going to get into another one of these debates. I don't know your dealer or their reasons. You should ask them, I guess.
.

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
10-06-04 09:04 PM - Post#253459    

Quote:

I'm not going to get into another one of these debates.





Been in enough of those with me huh? Its much easier to stick to the technical side of things, I know I've been trying.
chevsforever
Member
Posts 51
chevsforever
10-07-04 06:18 PM - Post#253460    

I feel like Im cheating here. I skipped a lot of the replys,,but it sure seems if soooo many people have issues with the parking brake,,,,,,,maybe there is one!! Im glad the moderators have not closed this, thanks. This and the tailgate cables seem to rule,,I just use tiedowns to load & unload my bike or quad until I get new ones. The brake thing is concerning. I have a 2500HD,,,one would guess it hauls weight. Yes it does,,and I must agree it scares me to park on even a slight grade with my camper & bike trailer & hope it doesnt cut loose at some point. I had more faith in my 72 Blazers p/brake than my 02. I agree its a weak link that many heavy haulers depend on.With this many posts,,I think we stand as numbers and ask,,WTH??(what the heck!!??) thought Ide keep it clean,,I have my own version.
Chevs since 1972,,my fav was a 65 El Camino with a 69 375HP 396. 02 2500 MAX xcab shorty pullin toys Our dirt bike club: www.cmtrail.org

Anonymous


10-07-04 07:19 PM - Post#253461    

This thread dies and comes back. Its wierd. All in all, the parking brake isnt holding, it has to be some defect in the truck or misuse by the owner. There are many trucks here that have the parking brake problem, and saying that, it has to be a manufacturing defect. We will see what Chevy comes out with next.

How many of you have actually taken apart the rear brake assembly? Checked the parking brake shoes? If you havent, why dont you? The brakes have been replaced on my truck, and my rear drums readjusted. That parking brake holds way better than it used to. I know, some of you are thinking, why am i browzing the 99-04 when i have the 95? I like to share my intellect.

All in all, if this thread continues on, it will be nothing but complaining about the same problem. Captain K, Time to shut her down.
chevsforever
Member
Posts 51
chevsforever
10-07-04 07:41 PM - Post#253462    

Slippin one in while its open,,youre right Silverado,,many reasons why they dont work,,lots of them user neglect or error,,mine was a leaking axle seal on one side. All was new by the dealer. It works better, but wont hold the camper & trailer still. Sure would hate to see the boat floating and the truck & trailer not,,isnt there a Ford comemrcial out there about " like a rock "?, LOL . Just my 2 cents,,,its a wimpy holding device for a rig built to haul 12000 plus and expect it to "stay". Okay,,thanks,,I feel better now!! On a positive note,,damn I love my Chevy!!!!!
Chevs since 1972,,my fav was a 65 El Camino with a 69 375HP 396. 02 2500 MAX xcab shorty pullin toys Our dirt bike club: www.cmtrail.org

Z53Bel
Senior Member
Posts 321
Z53Bel
10-08-04 08:12 AM - Post#253463    

Here are my comments to a few of the latest posts, from my perspective and situation.
For the issue on the dealer not fixing the brake for free; I am under warentte, they know about this in other trucks of those years and have even put together a 'repair package'. My point on this is that , belive it or not, I have not misused or failed to maintain my truck, and my parking/emergency brake has failed. Others have had the similar expierence, the dealer has seen the same. There have been numourous posts on it possibly being a flaw, yet GM is not addressing this and while it is a safety issue (I think we all agree on that)
Another point: I love my Chevy too! You couldn't find a bigger advocate for the Avalanche. Heck, I even have a 53 chevy and a 01 Suburban. Go Chevy
Next: As for taking apart the rear and rebuilding it, that is not an option for everyone. A lot of us on the board are a little more mechanically inclined and up for that, however what about the majority of chevy truck owners. The suburban is mainly sold to women with families. Most of them are not on this board and know about this. What do you think Chevy owes them?
OK, enough soapbox. How about a wrap up by a call to action?
We can either keep gripping or do something about this. I am open to any ideas and comments from 'nothing, let it ride' to a petition to storming the gates at GM
Just starting on my 53 Bel Air restoration, still!
235 3spd 4dr

John
Dedicated Enthusiast
Posts 7196
John
10-08-04 07:54 PM - Post#253464    

Quote:

Quote:

I had many customers on several different model lines comment that the vehicle shakes or idles very rough when shifted to park on a slight incline/decline.




That's funny, because I actually had this example in my reply and took it out before I posted. In 1988 I moved into an apartment where the only place I could park was on a hill, the truck was a 1983 K-5 Silverado, 305/TH700R4. I knew better than to park daily and let the tranny hold the truck. I would: 1- come to a complete stop and put the tranny in neutral 2- engage the parking brake and release the service brakes to make sure the parking brake was set properly and holding the truck, then 3- put the tranny into Park. The transmission was never in a bind and always shifted smoothly into gear whenever I was leaving.

The problem is, the parking brake doesn't work period, at least according to several members who have responded to this thread and two other threads regarding the parking brake. If they were to try the procedure for parking on a hill I described above, they wouldn't get past step 2 because the parking brake won't hold the truck.

I don't have the problem because I traded my Silverado for a 99 C/K truck. My parking brake works, I set it everytime I'm on a boat ramp and it will hold the truck and boat on a hill. And I don't need a chime to tell me it's set because I can't drive away with it set. I don't think it's asking too much to expect the parking brake to have the same life expectancy and holding power it's had on previous GM products. Nevermind the low-effort pedal, as long as it works. From what I'm reading here, it doesn't last long and stops working period.




I'm surprised this has resurfaced, I'd have thought something so important would have been addressed by now.

Look at the date of my orginal thread. Since then I've traded up to a 20 foot center console for offshore fishing that's mucho heavier than the 16 foot skiff I had when I originally posted.

But no change in boat launch procedure: 1)Back down the ramp until the boat starts to lift off the trailer. Put the tranny in neutral, set the parking brake, release the service brakes (no movement, it holds), then finally 3)Put the truck in Park because you're supposed to before you get out, and added insurance the truck is PARKED.

I don't have any problems. I wouldn't do it just because it's stupid, but I'm certain the parking brake would hold the truck and boat on the ramp. I know because I release the service brakes first and let the truck hold on the parking brake before I put it in park, just so I know - everytime - my brakes are fine and my tranny isn't holding the burden.

I hate to see this hasn't been addressed by recall by GM. The parking brake should hold the truck even if you're in drive, mashing the gas. Mine does.

Unfortunately, this is a "teething" problem that came up when they switched to 4-wheel disc brakes. And it may take a few years to fix, and you won't get a recall. At least that was the case when I once had a new K-5 (1983) with a then-new TH700-R4. It was a POS that wasn't corrected for 3 or 4 years. When they got it right, the rebuild was on YOUR dime.

Good luck to you all.
1979 2wd K5 Blazer, 350/TH350
1985 4x4 M1009 K5 Blazer, 6.2/TH400

rjv57chevy
Senior Member
Posts 133
rjv57chevy
11-08-04 05:57 PM - Post#253465    

Okay, I hate to beat a dead horse but I just had to deal with this same brake issue today. My wife drives an '02 Suburban with 40k miles. It wouldn't start this morning so I had the dealer pick up the car. It turns out the fuel pump was bad. While it was at the dealer I asked them to check out the parking brake.

We had it inspected about 2 month's and the inspector informed us that the emergency brake was not working properly but passed it anyway. He mentioned the design problem and said he see's this problem regularly. My co-workers also has mentioned the same issue on their vehicles.

After the dealer looked at the brakes the service rep said it was not covered and the pads were just worn. I ask how could something be worn out that we never use (it's an AT so we never use the parking brake though we probably should). He gave some BS answer. I do all my maintanance and I know that this is not my problem. I called the 800 number the service rep gave me (800-222-1020) and I talked to the corprate rep. I mentioned the bulleton # and the issue I was having and the dealer response. The person on the phone called the dealer and took care of the situation. My parking brake pads were replaced as a warranty item. I can gurantee you I will not ever buy a vehicle from this dealership since I had to twist arms to do warranty work.

Sorry to keep this thread going but I wanted you to know it's possible to have this fixed if your persistent. The key for me was mentioning the bulletin #. The real kicker is they replaced the pads and nowhere on the invoice does it mention replacing the redesigned clip. More ammo for me if they go out again.

Bulletin No.: 02-05-26-002A

TECHNICAL
Subject:
Scraping Noise From Rear Of Vehicle
(Replace Parking Brake Shoe Kit and Clean Drum In Hat Rotor)

Models:
2002-2003 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade EXT
1999-2003 Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Series Pickups
2000-2003 Chevrolet Suburban, Tahoe 1500 Series Models
2002-2003 Chevrolet Avalanche 1500 Series Models
1999-2003 GMC Sierra 1500 Series Pickups
2000-2003 GMC Yukon, Yukon XL 1500 Series Models

Condition
Some customers may comment on a scraping noise from the rear of the vehicle while driving. The noise may be intermittent.

Cause
Condition may due to the parking brake shoe contacting the drum in hat rotor without the parking brake being applied, causing premature wear on the shoe lining.

Correction
Replace the parking brake shoe and install a new designed spring clip retainer. Follow the service procedure to correct this condition.
Rodney
57 Bel Air Sedan (Father Son Project complete after 5 years)

Texas Gman
Member
Posts 1
11-30-04 11:22 AM - Post#253466    

I'm with you. There is definitely a design flaw in the parking brake assembly. I recently had to replace my shoes after failing inspection. However, I noticed that the brake went to the floor just a few months after getting my Avalanche in 2001. My service writer at the time said it was fine. My latest service writer was brutally honest and said it is a bad design, but since GM has not issued a recall, I would have to pay to replace the shoes. I have emailed Chevy at their site and filed a complaint with the TSB. If everybody here with this problem would do the same thing, we might get some action out of GM. Unfortunately since this problem is unlike to cause personal injury, GM will likely ignore the problem. No vehicle is perfect and there will always be quirks, but I believe this is a large and serious problem that should be addressed by GM.
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
11-30-04 02:00 PM - Post#253467    

Seems like Texas is the only darn state that tests for the parking brakes. I think it is worth it all in all if they combine smog with inspection.

We got lucky. The dealer in Lockhart got district to pay. We took ours in and complained about the to the floor. First they said that was OK. Then when we ask for an inspection sticker WHOOO! Your brakes are bad. See how the tune changes?
Shrimpzilla
Member
Posts 1
12-01-04 03:37 PM - Post#253468    

My '02 Silverado's "Parking Brake" hasn't worked since day one! Every Chevy/GMC 1/2 ton I've looked at since then, same thing. Real fun when you're launching the boat by yourself to hear the tranny pawl clunk. Take it apart, and it's a seperate assembly on top of the rear disc. What a stupid design. Anyone defending the parking brake on these trucks doesn't know what they're talking about, or has no experience with them.
phantomdaz
Member
Posts 77
phantomdaz
12-01-04 04:12 PM - Post#253469    

Well I must be the lucky one
I have 75K on my 99 Z71 and the parking brake is still working great. I was told to use the parking brake every time I got out of the truck to prevent the problems that are being discussed in this thread.

I was never one to use the parking brake and it was a little difficult to get use to doing but I do it every time I get out now.

(As sure as I type this, they will fail tomorrow)

The emergency brake pedal does feel soft and goes to the floor but that is how it is suppose to feel. If I forget to release the brake, the truck will not move even if I try to take off.

soooo.... Wish me continued luck!
Archangel_369th
Senior Member
Posts 491
Archangel_369th
12-01-04 04:21 PM - Post#253470    

DAMN!
2006 2500HD CC LBZ 4X4 400 + 500 watt amps w/sub Big 'ol' Redneck Tires Upgraded to pwr/htd turn sgnl mirrors 2005 Trailblazer Flowmaster

scrambldcj8
Senior Member
Posts 1757
12-21-04 06:18 PM - Post#253471    

Phamtom....reminds me of the 76-78 caddy Eldorados rear disk calipers...they had to be used all the time to stay in adjustment. I will admit that I had read the 1st page and then skipped to the last, so I may have missed something. I had read that some say it is a parking brake and not to rely on it as an emergency brake. Whoaaa, in the state of MA an intregal part of the state vehicle inspection is the safety portion (we have a yearly safety and a random emissions test). The parking (or shall I say emergency brake) brake is part of the yearly safety inspection. We are required to have a hydraulic brake and an emergency braking system (cable or non-hydraulic)...the emergent system would be the E brake (or parking brake for lack of another term). If these parking/emergent brakes do not hold the vehicle at a stop with light throttle applied then the vehicle will fail the safety part of the inspection....no questions asked! Any one here from MA or from a state with similar inspections? It is my understanding that this IS NOT a parking brake only issue....it is a secondary braking system to be used if the hydraulic system fails. GM needs to improve the design of their rear disk/Ebrake design..not go back to drums (on the 1/2 Tons) for a simple quick cheap fix!! Anyone?
Anonymous


01-17-05 07:48 AM - Post#253472    

I have been looking for this information on the E brake issue.
I also skipped many of the replys including some of the "service advisors" that wish to excuse the defect and support why the brake is built that way.
Yes I am in Texas and it is a safety issue with the State Inspection process.

My experience started with the pruchase of a 2000 C15 Silverado extended cab PU used 88 K mi. excelent condition, well maintained, and with extended warrenty still in force. I will get back to this later.

My second experience was when my youngest son was turned down on an inspection due to e brake failure. I offered to help him resolve the issue and therefore pulled the rear disk/drums to inspect the lining. His is a 2002 purchased used with 57 K mi.

Found: The left rear band was worn through the lining and the band was dragging metal to metal on the drum at the bottom.The worn place on the band was just center to one side. Replacement band was purchased form O Reilly Auto Parts, AC Delco GM # 88982875 made in Australia.
The right side did not show any wear at all and was perfectly symetrical. The right side grease seal was leaking and had coated the inside of the drum and band. This was wiped out and reinstalled without making replacement. According to the adjustment on both sides the e brake had not been previously adjusted. Adjustment requires pulling the disc/drum therefore would be open for inspection. Both sides were adjusted according to Haynes Repair Manual NO. 24066 and the packaged instruction that came with the new replacement shoe No. PL 625.

Now back to the 2000 I told you about at first.
The same inspection was performed by pulling the wheels, disk/drums and to my suprise here is what was found:

>>>>SAME<<<<< with the following exceptions:

The grease seal on the right side wasn't leaking quite as bad.

Now armed with this evidence I attempted to contact Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center, who in the past has been very cooperative in furnishing all restoration pakages and literature without charge.
Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center is just for that, non-contriversal subjects. On the several attempts to find out the recall status of this very important safety issue, I was given an open request No. 1-270255902 and a lady's name of Marie James at a 800 222 1020. This was sent to me by Michael Jones, Customer Relationship Manager @ Chevrolet Customer Assistance Center.

The last time I actually spoke to the Center, I was told to take my PU to the dealer and take it up with them. Take the part replaced for an application to request a refund.

Hans Rasch - League City, Texas
ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
01-17-05 09:27 AM - Post#253473    

I know where League City is...not a lot of hills there. Do you regularly use your e-brake on the '00? The reason I ask is that there's some indication that regular use of the e-brake seems to keep wear down to the point where it will actually pass inspection.

I park on a hill every day and use my e-brake...so far, it's holding up (this is on an '02).

Also, when you say you're failing the inspection, on what basis are they failing you? TX inspections use this criteria:

Quote:

Parking brake will not hold the vehicle in place when, with the engine running, the vehicle is placed in forward gear and the engine is accelerated enough to cause a pull on the braking mechanism.




That's not a lot of throttle. Less than light throttle. If these guys are gunning the engine in gear and claiming you're failing the e-brake portion of the test, I'd recommend either another inspection place or asking them to re-read the Texas law regarding inspection criteria.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

Fixitfox33
Senior Member
Posts 1094
Fixitfox33
01-17-05 09:53 AM - Post#253474    

Quote:


One other thing and I'll shut up, there may be some confusion about TSB's. These are Technical Service Bulletins, not recalls or extended warranty. They are only there to help techs diagnose and repair problems.

John
Service manager/advisor
Chevy dealer




Hi John,
No arguement on this point, but would it be possible to get a good description of a "Campaign", what it is, how to get it done, and how to learn about them in the first place?

As a government fleet mechanic, I have attended many courses at a GM Training Center, and just during the course of conversation with instructors and dealership mechanics, have learned about different "campaigns", often because I had brought up a subject.
Another surprising point is, each dealership rep at the classes had a different amount of awareness of the campaign programs. Some would say they were snowed under by, say the camber kit campaign on late 80's pickups, while others would learn about it during the same conversation.

The general public never gets a hint unless they go in and have a conversation with a friendly service rep.

Yes, there are many friendly and helpful ones, but, then again, I have left different places where they were just the opposite, and that isn't GM...I deal with Ford and Chrysler also.

Sorry about dragging out...I really just wanted an explination of the Campaigns, and yours in the quote above were very clear, concise, and easy for anyone to understand.

Fix
Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)

nguerin
Member
Posts 3
01-23-05 06:34 PM - Post#253475    

Greetings. I just found out about this issue today when a friend failed safety inspection here in Austin, Texas. The inspector said that when testing the parking brake, he has to apply it then throttle to about 1500 RPM and the brake should hold. Hers (01 Suburban) did not, so I tried mine (02 Tahoe) and it did not either. Both trucks hold the vehicle in place when the parking brake is applied then placed in gear. Texas law does not provide a specific performance level to which the brake must function to, just that it should hold the vehicle in place on any grade or surface.

I passed inspection last year and have about 6 months remaining. It sounds like this is a well known problem, but I'm not sure what to do. Does it really need to be fixed, and if so, is it covered by any warranty or recall item or a wearable part that needs replacement (meaning $$$ for me)? Is there anything that can be done to prevent this problem from happening?

So far, I have been very pleased with my Tahoe. I'm just hoping that now out of warranty (51k miles) it does not become a beast of burden!

Thanks for the information!
ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
01-23-05 07:05 PM - Post#253476    

Please check out my post about 3 posts up. All that's required for the inspection is enough throttle to generate force on the braking system. Have the inspection station show you where in the Texas inspection regulations 1500 RPM is required for the e-brake check (hint: there isn't one). Then ask them to re-inspect the vehicle in accordance with the state inspection law.

Some inspection station operators are morons. Not all, but some definitely fall in that category. Here's another hint: Never take your vehicle in to an inspection station that also does repairs.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

nguerin
Member
Posts 3
01-26-05 11:59 AM - Post#253477    

What's the best way to get a dealership to fix the problem for free? Should I cry, run into the showroom screaming how badly they want to treat me? I called several places and tried being extra extra nice, but they all tell me its about a $250 job.
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
01-26-05 01:23 PM - Post#253478    

Quote:

What's the best way to get a dealership to fix the problem for free?




Is the vehicle still under warranty? If not, you're probably going to have a tough time convincing them to fix it for free, unless you're a REAL good customer there. If you've never been to the dealership before, well, good luck.

I know some here will kick and scream about that, but that's the reality of it and I'm not going to debate the fairness of it all or how much GM owes you.
.

GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
01-26-05 01:40 PM - Post#253479    

Quote:

No arguement on this point, but would it be possible to get a good description of a "Campaign", what it is, how to get it done, and how to learn about them in the first place?




Campaigns (also known as recalls) consist of various types. There are safety campaigns, emission campaigns, customer satisfaction campaigns, etc.

In some instances, the manufacturer will be required (forced?) to recall certain vehicles to correct certain problems. These are usually safety or emission issues.

In other cases, the manufacturer decides enough of a problem exists in a considerable number of vehicles for them to institute a voluntary campaign.

You can get it done by going to any dealer that services your make of vehicle. MOST (but not all) campaigns are in effect for the life of the vehicle. In other words, they never expire and if you go in with a vehicle that was recalled for something 20 years ago but the recall was never done on your vehicle, it can still be performed at no cost to you. We can even do recalls on vehicles that have been branded as salvaged, junked, totalled, even though this voids the normal warranty.

In very few instances, a campaign will be issued that does have an expiration date. We have one right now for the emission label on Cavaliers. It expires April 1, 2005. These are not common.

If you're the registered owner of the vehicle, you should be notified by the manufacturer by mail that your vehicle has been recalled. This doesn't always work for a miriad of reasons.

Your other option is to go into your local dealer. They can punch your VIN into GM's system and it will tell them if there are any open (uncompleted) recalls on your vehicle. If you can't do that, you can call Chevy Customer assistance at 800-222-1020 and they can tell you. Have your full VIN handy.

I disagree that the general public never gets a hint about these. They are always in the papers, on the news, etc. Often, we'll hear from a customer asking about a recall on something before we even know about it in the dealership unless we read the same paper or watch the same news they do.
.

Fixitfox33
Senior Member
Posts 1094
Fixitfox33
01-26-05 03:57 PM - Post#253480    

Quote:



I disagree that the general public never gets a hint about these. They are always in the papers, on the news, etc. Often, we'll hear from a customer asking about a recall on something before we even know about it in the dealership unless we read the same paper or watch the same news they do.




Sorry, you are right. "Never gets a hint" is way too strong.
There are some campaigns, though, that don't get as much publicity as others.

And thanks for the phone number. I'm sure there are some people reading this that don't have a great relationship with a service department, and will use the number.

Fix
Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)

nguerin
Member
Posts 3
01-27-05 01:32 PM - Post#253481    

For those of you in the Austin (Texas) area, I took and had my Tahoe serviced at Capitol Chevrolet. They repaired the parking brake issue when I brought it in for 50K mile service. I am overwhelmingly satisfied.
Anonymous


01-28-05 01:29 AM - Post#253482    

Ok let's think about this quote...

"The parking brake's intent is not to keep your vehicle from rolling away, that's the transmission's job."
if it's the transmission's job how can you do that with a standard transmission?

Does GM put different rear brakes on standard trucks? or is this a huge line to get people to shut up..
ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
01-28-05 04:14 AM - Post#253483    

Quote:

if it's the transmission's job how can you do that with a standard transmission?




Umm...most of us with standard trannies put it in gear when we park. I don't know of anyone who parks in neutral with the parking brake the only device preventing gravity from taking over.

Was this a trick question?
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
01-28-05 05:34 AM - Post#253484    

"The parking brake's intent is not to keep your vehicle from rolling away, that's the transmission's job."
if it's the transmission's job how can you do that with a standard transmission?

From that logic we can assume that the job of the transmission is to stop the truck and the parking brakes are for engine speed. Maybe the glove box is for seating and the tires are for seeing in the dark.

hehehe

No. I think that the basic words on each item describe what they are supposed to do.

As long as ya'll go out and test that parking brake once in a while that would be best.
Fixitfox33
Senior Member
Posts 1094
Fixitfox33
01-28-05 02:12 PM - Post#253485    

Quote:

Quote:

if it's the transmission's job how can you do that with a standard transmission?




Umm...most of us with standard trannies put it in gear when we park. I don't know of anyone who parks in neutral with the parking brake the only device preventing gravity from taking over.

Was this a trick question?




Hmmm.
I have a standard transmission, and using that logic, I would need to pull up to a gate, for example, set my parking brake, KILL the engine, put it in gear, get out and open the gate, get in and drive through the gate, set the parking brake, put it in gear, KILL the engine, get out and close the gate, get back in and start.....

Aint that a bunch of crap???

I depend on my PARKING BRAKE to hold the vehicle, even on a fairly steep slope.

Good thing I don't have one of those new vehicles. I am generally a pretty loving, understanding, forgiving person. But I think I would be in somebodies face if they gave me that kind of answer.

FIX
Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)

ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
01-28-05 02:41 PM - Post#253486    

Quote:

I depend on my PARKING BRAKE to hold the vehicle, even on a fairly steep slope.




Let's just hope it's not a late-model Chevy we're talking about here

Parking a manual tranny on a steep hill with only a parking brake is an accident waiting to happen. Hopefully you at least turn your wheels so you don't take out anybody behind you.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
01-28-05 02:51 PM - Post#253487    

I don't have a manual and have never driven one, but I don't understand this. Why can't one rely on the Parking Brake to hold the vehicle in place?
Fixitfox33
Senior Member
Posts 1094
Fixitfox33
01-28-05 04:32 PM - Post#253488    

Actually, the gates I referred to are out in the wide open, pastures and what not.
Steep is kinda relative.
If I were parking in San Fransisco, where you see those street cars going down that hill that would make a great soap box derby track, by all means, I would probably shut the truck off, set the brake, and even have the tire against the curb...just like every drivers ed graduate would.
Even with a truck with spring breaks, (hey, there's a parking break meant to HOLD the vehicle!!)I keep my eye on it if I walk in front, and usually have a place to go if something were to give.
That's the same with every mechanical piece of equipment I can think of. Mechanical things BREAK.
Accident waiting to happen? Not really...until Chevy came up with this "parking brake", that it SEEMS is intended to prevent, or at least slow down the movement of a vehicle across a perfectly flat parking lot, pushed by nothing more than a mild breeze.

Come ON!! If it won't hold any more than that, then leave it off of the vehicle, and print in the owners manual that "GM has decided that PARKING brakes are not intended for parking, and therefore are no longer provided...use the transmission."

Nope...if I repair a parking brake, and tell someone it is the way it is supposed to be, I won't stand "behind it"....,I'll stand "IN FRONT of it".
If it won't hold...it isn't going to leave my shop.

Fix
Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)

ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
01-28-05 06:45 PM - Post#253489    

OK, I agree, "steep" is a relative term. When I think of "steep," I think of the townhouse I used to live in on the side of Mt. Sequoia in the Ozarks...if a parking brake cable were to snap, there's no telling how long the truck would roll!

I guess it just depends on where you spend your time driving a standard...after years in the hills, it just became second nature to put the truck in gear, even if there wasn't a hill in sight.

That said, I still don't by the "low effort brake" spin that GM is putting on what really amounts to defective p-brake design.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

nodakbassmaster
Super Senior Member
Posts 4397
nodakbassmaster
01-29-05 12:22 AM - Post#253490    

Quote:

until Chevy came up with this "parking brake", that it SEEMS is intended to prevent, or at least slow down the movement of a vehicle across a perfectly flat parking lot, pushed by nothing more than a mild breeze.





In a level driveway if I put it in drive or reverse after setting the "parking brake" I have to chalk the tires to keep it from moving.... what does that say about when you are, say loading or unloading a 20 foot fiberglass boat? Boat ramps have a tendancy to be fairly steep, and you have the weight of the truck AND the boat behind it..... NO WAY will the brake even slow that down.
Richard

'09 Silverado 3500HD CC LB D/A LTZ Z71, Mods Annonymous Member #3

Anonymous


01-29-05 01:25 AM - Post#253491    

Quote:

Quote:
Quote:
if it's the transmission's job how can you do that with a standard transmission?



Umm...most of us with standard trannies put it in gear when we park. I don't know of anyone who parks in neutral with the parking brake the only device preventing gravity from taking over.

Was this a trick question?



Hmmm.
I have a standard transmission, and using that logic, I would need to pull up to a gate, for example, set my parking brake, KILL the engine, put it in gear, get out and open the gate, get in and drive through the gate, set the parking brake, put it in gear, KILL the engine, get out and close the gate, get back in and start.....

Aint that a bunch of crap???

I depend on my PARKING BRAKE to hold the vehicle, even on a fairly steep slope.

Good thing I don't have one of those new vehicles. I am generally a pretty loving, understanding, forgiving person. But I think I would be in somebodies face if they gave me that kind of answer.

FIX



Thank you fixitfox33 I was wondering if any of the other people who were giving me crap about my post ( talking about glove boxes?) had ever driven a standard transmission!!

Glad to see someone understands why we have a parking brake!!

Here in Vermont we start our cars and trucks to warm them up ( it was -20 yesterday) and I don't see a chunk of wood in any of the new chevys on the lot!!!!
Figmoman
Valued Contributor
Posts 2935
Figmoman
01-29-05 02:57 AM - Post#253492    

Add mine to the list. 2000 Suburban 1500, bought brand new. 101+K miles. Its still on original brake pads. The parking brake has not held for years. Drive or reverse at idle on level. Vehicle rolls the same with or without parking brake applied. Ive had many many vehicles old and new. The parking brake worked on all but this one. Ill bet there have been a lot of roll aways considering the number of vehicles with this problem. I guess someone will have to be killed or maimed before GM with fix or retrofit this design.
1960 Impala Sport Coupe. 348 PG 1972 K-10 short wide. 350 4 speed
2000 Chevy Suburban 1500 2wd 5.3 1965 Pontiac GTO hardtop, 462 tri-power TKO-600, 3.90 12 bolt. 2008 Audi A4 2.0 turbo 6sp manual.


ExaTorq
Senior Member
Posts 1296
01-29-05 04:21 AM - Post#253493    

Quote:

Thank you fixitfox33 I was wondering if any of the other people who were giving me crap about my post ( talking about glove boxes?) had ever driven a standard transmission!!




For 12 years I drove a standard tranny, most of that in very hilly areas. Does that count?

If I'm qualified, then I still stand behind what I've been saying all along: No one should be depending on their parking brake alone to hold their vehicle. It's as simple as that.
Brian '03 Tahoe 5.3L FFV/ Wester's 89/91 tune / Outlaw CAI

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
01-29-05 11:36 AM - Post#253494    

I wrote about the glove box. The point being that the name describes it's use. So, a "Parking Brake" ought to do what the name is. It should brake the truck when you park.
redvett01
Senior Member
Posts 1155
01-29-05 01:11 PM - Post#253495    

Quote:

Quote:

until Chevy came up with this "parking brake", that it SEEMS is intended to prevent, or at least slow down the movement of a vehicle across a perfectly flat parking lot, pushed by nothing more than a mild breeze.





Thats why the 05 Silverado has drum brakes and so do most of the MFGR's. GM put bigger front brakes on the front along with the drums in the rear. Works for me.
K1500 04 Silverado EXT

Anonymous


01-31-05 12:58 AM - Post#253496    


Quote:

Thats why the 05 Silverado has drum brakes and so do most of the MFGR's. GM put bigger front brakes on the front along with the drums in the rear. Works for me.





05's do not have drum brakes!!
Anonymous


01-31-05 01:05 AM - Post#253497    

Quote:

For 12 years I drove a standard tranny, most of that in very hilly areas. Does that count?

If I'm qualified, then I still stand behind what I've been saying all along: No one should be depending on their parking brake alone to hold their vehicle. It's as simple as that.




Very good point, you sould not depend on parking brakes alone. one such example is if you are parking on something slippery with a 4x4 truck. You should use the transmission (Standard or auto.) I say this because the parking brake is only the rear wheels, In 4x4 mode it would brake all drive wheels.

But I still say that you should be able to have a parking brake that you can park a car in your yard and not have it roll away!
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
01-31-05 02:46 AM - Post#253498    

Quote:

05's do not have drum brakes!!




Oh yes they do... on the 1500's.
.

dcarey
Contributor
Posts 911
01-31-05 03:08 AM - Post#253499    

Balony! The only truck I've owned that the "parking brake" wouldn't hold is the 1999-2004 GM truck. My 96' 4x4 would hold on an incline nose up with a load or trailor, and in REVERSE!!! Same goes for my 82' 4x4. These are trucks, not passenger cars. The parking brake should be beefy enough to keep these vehicles from rolling, and you should be able to depend on them, regardless of what gear your in. GM went back to drums because their fleet sales for 1500's were fixin' to go down the toilet! A work truck has to be able to depend on it's "parking brake".
Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4

Fixitfox33
Senior Member
Posts 1094
Fixitfox33
01-31-05 02:10 PM - Post#253500    

Quote:



Very good point, you sould not depend on parking brakes alone. one such example is if you are parking on something slippery with a 4x4 truck. You should use the transmission (Standard or auto.) I say this because the parking brake is only the rear wheels, In 4x4 mode it would brake all drive wheels.

But I still say that you should be able to have a parking brake that you can park a car in your yard and not have it roll away!




Actually, in reality, if you split hairs, the parking brake locks up,(they used to) BOTH rear wheels. If the transmission is used, it locks the driveshaft, so a vehicle with one rear wheel on ice, for example, will allow the ice wheel to spin backwards, while the traction wheel actually rolls foreward, holding nothing, due to differential action.
As for the 4X4, if it remains in 4X4,(Hey, don't forget that pesky front axle actuator that will release when power is removed)...if it remains in 4X4 then, the rear parking brakes lock the driveshaft, which is connected to the front driveshaft in the transfer case, and keeps that driveshaft from turning also, which in effect, is 4 wheel parking brake, assuming both front wheels are on good traction surface, or due to the front differential action, you could be in the same boat as mentioned above.
Using the transmission, take into account the differential action in some transfer cases, front vs rear, and your park goes to mush.

Yep, we probably shouldn't trust ANY mechanical device with our lives, but then you must think about all those people getting in a box, hung on a cable, suspending them 1,000 feet in the air, over an empty shaft....Yikes!! it's an ELEVATOR!
But they have redundent systems, which, assuming ALL of them work, we take our chances.
Guess that's progress, and the world we live in.
I just think a parking brake was always intended to hold a vehicle, reasonably well anyway, and I hate to think they are no longer expected to perform to the standards we grew up with.

Fix
Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)

Anonymous


02-01-05 12:51 AM - Post#253501    

Quote:

Thats why the 05 Silverado has drum brakes and so do most of the MFGR's. GM put bigger front brakes on the front along with the drums in the rear. Works for me.





Quote:

05's do not have drum brakes!!




Quote:

Oh yes they do... on the 1500's.




It seems GM-Tech we have the best of both worlds, you and I are both right.
The '05 2500HD does not have drum brakes.

But then considering the fact that we covered how poorly disk in rear works, I am stunned that on the Chevrolet that is Heavy Duty it would have something sub par.

Maybe we will see continued improvements to the rest of the truck line.
Anonymous


02-01-05 01:03 AM - Post#253502    

Quote:

Actually, in reality, if you split hairs, the parking brake locks up,(they used to) BOTH rear wheels. If the transmission is used, it locks the driveshaft, so a vehicle with one rear wheel on ice, for example, will allow the ice wheel to spin backwards, while the traction wheel actually rolls foreward, holding nothing, due to differential action.
As for the 4X4, if it remains in 4X4,(Hey, don't forget that pesky front axle actuator that will release when power is removed)...if it remains in 4X4 then, the rear parking brakes lock the driveshaft, which is connected to the front driveshaft in the transfer case, and keeps that driveshaft from turning also, which in effect, is 4 wheel parking brake, assuming both front wheels are on good traction surface, or due to the front differential action, you could be in the same boat as mentioned above.
Using the transmission, take into account the differential action in some transfer cases, front vs rear, and your park goes to mush.

Yep, we probably shouldn't trust ANY mechanical device with our lives, but then you must think about all those people getting in a box, hung on a cable, suspending them 1,000 feet in the air, over an empty shaft....Yikes!! it's an ELEVATOR!
But they have redundent systems, which, assuming ALL of them work, we take our chances.
Guess that's progress, and the world we live in.
I just think a parking brake was always intended to hold a vehicle, reasonably well anyway, and I hate to think they are no longer expected to perform to the standards we grew up with.

Fix




Ah, Fix you are right again. First off I wold like to say chevrolet has the best Locking rear end of the big TWO (sorry don't count Dodge anymore) so rear wheel slippage would be less then a Ford. But I was not aware of the "pesky front axle actuator that will release when power is removed" It seems I am living in a dream world, or the past when you had control over your driveline and could put you front hubs in and out. Oh, the good old days!!

As for the ELEVATOR good point but you are conversing with someone who hates to, for example ride a train plane or amusement park ride!!!
dcarey
Contributor
Posts 911
02-01-05 03:37 AM - Post#253503    

Just checked my parking brake out again to make sure I wasn't delusional (about the brake anyway). I replaced the parking brakes last November when one of the retaining clips broke and I almost lost my truck in the woods. They had worked fine up to that point. On a pretty good inclined hill (maybe 30 degrees) the truck held, even in reverse. That's how they should work.
Dave 2005 5.3 Reg Cab Shortbed 4x4

57_sedan_delivery
Old as Dirt Member
Posts 6720
02-01-05 04:10 AM - Post#253504    

Quote:

The point being that the name describes it's use. So, a "Parking Brake" ought to do what the name is. It should brake the truck when you park.




I remember the day when it was also called an emergency brake.

The majority of my trucks have been manual transmissions including my current one. Depending on where I'm parking I may use the 'parking brake' but usually I just leave it in gear if it is flat. But those of us that use our trucks for something more than just to go to the office are often in and out of our trucks during the course of the day and depend on the park brake to do it's jop. If I'm working a fence line, going in and out gates, hooking/unhooking a trailer, etc. I'm not going to turn the truck engine off every time I get out of it as that would be stupid and just more wear and tear on the engine components. So in the course of a normal day my park brake is used at least a couple times and it should work.
Mike W.

Founding father Desert Classic Chevys in Phoenix, Az.

1957 sedan delivery 454 TH400
1956 windowed sedan delivery US Dept of Ag car
1956 Chevy 3100 US Navy pickup
1959 rare GMC 100 fleet option 100 pickup

awscpa
Member
Posts 1
03-16-05 07:11 PM - Post#253505    

Sorry, to bring this back up.

I replaced the rotors, parking brake shoes, and the redesigned "clip".

Adjusted according to Haynes and info here in this thread.

Will hold but still is rubbing inside of drum.

If you adjust too tight it rubs or drags. If you don't get it tight enough it won't hold.

Somewhere I read where there was an elegant fix with a dremel tool..... something trimmed off to let another part pass. What was it?

Can't find it.

Might not have been this site.

Anyone else see that.

I'm about ready to get it inspected and take the pads off for a year for some peace and quiet.

I don't see that the new "clip" accomplished anything.
GM-Tech
Super Senior Member
Posts 4157
GM-Tech
03-16-05 07:33 PM - Post#253506    

Quote:

If you adjust too tight it rubs or drags. If you don't get it tight enough it won't hold.




Not true. If properly adjusted, they hold fine and do not rub. Done plenty of 'em. We always use the gauge to properly adjust the shoes to get the required clearance.

The clip that doesn't appear to do anything just holds the shoes in position so they don't slip down and ride against the drum all the time, wearing out prematurely.
.

nodakbassmaster
Super Senior Member
Posts 4397
nodakbassmaster
03-16-05 08:39 PM - Post#253507    

well besides my parking brake not holding at all... I finally have an interesting one to add to this. The other day I had both back tires off the ground installing my back-up lights... well to try and test them by myself, I decided to put on the parking brake and put it in reverse, assuming the tires should hold still with no weight on them.. nope, not only did they not hold off the ground, but they were only catching in one spot... they would rotate and at one point in the 360 rotation would pause for a 1/8 second CLUNK and keep rotating..... it was very sickening to watch!! well, I guess I am gonna have to pull both back wheels off before boating season to try and figure out how to get them to work..... next time I am about to do this, I will take a quick video clip of it and see if someone will host it for me... it would turn some of you stomaches to hear/see it!!
Richard

'09 Silverado 3500HD CC LB D/A LTZ Z71, Mods Annonymous Member #3

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
03-17-05 02:41 PM - Post#253508    

Hummmm..... you didn't have to have the engine running to test the reverse lights (unless they changed something). Be careful buddy! There is only one of you.

Not supposed to run with the wheels off the ground. It is the same as on ice, you might over rev the dif and blow it apart.

G80's act up like that. Are you sure it isn't a locker issue?
Anonymous


12-04-05 07:15 AM - Post#253509    

This is my final comment:

After exausting phone corrospondence with GM - Chevrolet about their E-brake design problem and being assigned an Issue No. 1-270255902. but no follow up from them as they prommised, and they couldn't find the Issue No. when I did my own follow up but told me to carry out the discussion with my dealer.
Dealer turned me over to their claims department who offered the price of the replaced part only, which I accepted.

They have sence curred the problem that they claim does not exist.

The new 2006 have the old drum design brakes issue which were never a problem. (Adavanced engineering)

Only the disc brakes had the problem with the E brake.
2004maxx
Very Senior Member
Posts 1817
12-05-05 07:12 AM - Post#253510    

Its not like they can't design one that doesn't work. I have an '04 Malibu with 4 wheel disc brakes. The thing is 1yr 2mo old and I have no problems with the parking brake.
beejay
Ultra Senior Member
Posts 12599
beejay
12-05-05 11:04 AM - Post#253511    

I have spent the better part of 6-hours in two days reading EVERY post in this thread. I find it very informative, but very disheartening that Chevy doesn't do more for their vehicles than they do.

I have a '99 Silverado 1500, purchased in Feb, '99. I ALWAYS use the "whatever" brake when I am gonna get outta the truck. I leave it in drive, "real" brake engaged, then set the "whatever" brake. The truck is now neigh on to 6-years old, and the "whatever" brake still works. All I can say is that I'm glad to be a part of the fortunate few. GM has been steadily losing customers for a lot of reasons: poorly designed and outdated systems, while throwing in some whiz-bang stuff that has nothing to do with anything as far as drivability. If they put in as much time and thought to safety-related items and not the whiz-bangs, they would put out a better product. As it is, within about 2-3 years, Toyota Tundra will be outselling the 1500. Their customer satisfaction is one heckova lot higher that GM's right now. I hate to see this, but threads like this, and other unresolved problems by GM, will cause MANY to rethink what to buy. I love my truck, and have been fairly fortunate with it. I have no idea what my next truck will be.

Bruce
Bruce

'56 4-door BelAir, 350, Holley 600, Eddie intake, TKO 600, CPP P/S and A arms, Sierra Gold & Adobe Beige
2010 VW Jetta S/W, 2.5, 5-cyl,6-spd auto.
'87 Elkie, 350 with 700r4 tranny B&M floor shift
http://www.picturetrail.com/beejay3/"

whiteZ
Member
Posts 196
12-05-05 05:16 PM - Post#253512    

I've got almost 140K miles on my original set of regular brake pads and they still have a lot of life left. I've replaced by park brake twice and I never ever use it. Two different people have told me if you don't use your PB that the pads slip against the drum and grind the pads down so I should use it periodically to center the pads. Sounds like fooey to me.

Texas state inspection requires the PB to hold the vehicle in drive with the engine at 700 RPM. i have to have the PB adjusted everytime I have an inspection.

I believe the PB should still be an emergency brake. It would be nice to have some form of brakes if your regular brakes fail at 70MPH. Just a thought.

I love my truck but GM (and the rest of Amercia for that matter) continues to lose ground because they continue to ask what can we get by with instead of what is the right thing to do. For example,

My truck's CSK continues to get worse. If the engine grenades before I'm done with it or 200K I'll assume the knock it's had since 14K miles has something to do with it and I'll buy a Toyota next time. If the engine last well maybe I'll get another Chevy if they haven't priced them selves out of the market.
Anonymous


12-05-05 09:23 PM - Post#253513    

If you remember a previous post of mine, the parking brake is not meant for stopping the truck from a 70 MPH. My dad's 2003 GMC Sierra's parking brake holds well. I have tested it myself, and even around 1,300 RPM in both R and D, it held and didnt move.
udflyer98
Senior Member
Posts 145
12-06-05 08:20 AM - Post#253514    

At least your's works. I took mine in under the recall because it would not engage. When I picked up my truck the [Email]f@#*ing[/Email] driver's side PB would not release. Dealer told me it would cost roughly $154 to have them replace the cable. I told them to keep the cable since the system hasn't worked right for years and I quit using it. The cable wouldn't be stretched if the brake would have engaged properly in the first place.
2006 Silverado 2500HD Regular Cab LS 4x4, LLY/ZF6, Victory Red
Brotherhood of Handshakers member #9

glsable
Senior Member
Posts 475
12-30-05 08:05 AM - Post#253515    

Quote:

Not true. If properly adjusted, they hold fine and do not rub. Done plenty of 'em. We always use the gauge to properly adjust the shoes to get the required clearance.

The clip that doesn't appear to do anything just holds the shoes in position so they don't slip down and ride against the drum all the time, wearing out prematurely.




GM-Tech:
Maybe bad adjustment of the clip was the problem with our 2003? After 30,000 miles and NEVER having driven with the parking brake on (the brake has always worked very well and you couldn't drive away with it on if you wanted to), the parking brake pads were worn out. Within warranty period and Chevy refused to pay for a "wear and tear" item. From what you are saying it appears to have been badly adjusted at the factory?
glsable
glsable
2003 K1500 Suburban LT
1993 Caprice wagon
1998 Volvo S70 Turbo

Suburbazine
"2nd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts 495
Suburbazine
01-24-06 11:08 AM - Post#253516    

Hello all, I just noticed this sticky. I just had close to 1100 dollars worth of repairs to the brake system done because of the parking brake. No, the thing hasn't ever been used as an emergency brake. It has also not been driven on. But still it wore out mysteriously.

I discovered it was out while parking on my driveway facing downhill (with an empty trailer attached). I stopped, applied the P-brake, and shifted into park. When I released the brake pedal, the truck rolled forward without resistance (while in park). I'm pretty sure the pawl is torn up because it made an extremely nasty racheting noise; I can only assume it couldn't seat because the P-brake did not hold the truck long enough. I also had no warning about the brake being out, I had to find out the hard way.

I took it to the dealer, who then discovered I had torn up the brake rotors and the (whatever) mounts, resulting in a huge labor and parts fee. This also seriously affected the ABS system's ability to keep those wheels from locking. Under a moderate stop from 55MPH the right rear wheel went into a full lock and the truck went into a fishtail (not a bad one as I corrected quickly). Again, this Tahoe was not driven with the p-brake engaged, at least it was all the way released, ever (only 50,000 miles)

I think it's a defective design, and the brakes don't fully release. My situation may be worse than others because the problem got away for longer. But if your p-brake doesn't work, have it looked at IMMEDIATELY.
2002 Tahoe 5.7L Z56
Forged Pistons & Rods
EPS Dyno Tune
Comp 218/222 114+4LSA .600 lift cam w/ full valvetrain upgrade
Ported | Polished | Milled .030" 862 heads
4L80E conversion, Vigilante 4200 triple disc

ChevyRadoMan
Member
Posts 89
01-31-06 11:45 AM - Post#253517    

i tested it and rolled down a hill... now what?


Squasher
Very Senior Member
Posts 1726
Squasher
02-20-06 06:10 PM - Post#253518    

I checked my PB yesterday and it didn't work . An ant under the tire as a wheel chock could have done better . I never had any problem with my PB before. It just gave out with no warning. I checked it about 3 months ago. I have a little over 48k miles on my 2001. My main brakes work. I never park on a hill and I always used my P-brake when the vehicle is turned off.

Do you think there is major damage or just the shoes need replacing?
2001 GMC Sierra K1500 Z71 x/cab SLT 5.3L

JumpandJive305
Member
Posts 1
03-28-06 08:11 AM - Post#253519    

Any news if Chevrolet will fix the problem with their 2007 pickups and sport-utility vehicles?

I have always been one to think that even though the transmission is supposed to keep the vehicle stationary: if the parking brake doesn't do any good why have it installed?

A parking brake installed to back up the parking pawl that doesn't work WILL NOT back up the transmission.
A Mopar man that also like Bowties.

silveradolsz7153
Senior Member
Posts 929
03-29-06 06:11 PM - Post#253520    

They fixed it by going back to old style drum brakes on half ton trucks (the only ones with the problem).

Bill
If you don't like your job, don't go on strike. Just go in every day and do a really half a$$ed job. That's the American way----Homer Simpson

Brunzcuda
Member
Posts 10
03-31-06 08:00 PM - Post#253521    

ok, I noticed that the parking cable adjustment was full on tight with no threads left (under bed). This was when I picked it up new in 2004. I asked the salesman about it and even started a discussion in the show room with all the Chevy people, no one knew why. When home, I backed it off, half way. Guess what, the park pedal grabed at the same spot. The "low effort parking brake" feature must be self- adjusting too. This is what is confusing. I noticed all other disc brake Siverados with cables mis-adjusted from the dealers; what gives? How about the design engineer's explation and diagrams?
silveradolsz7153
Senior Member
Posts 929
04-01-06 04:12 PM - Post#253522    

Quote:

ok, I noticed that the parking cable adjustment was full on tight with no threads left (under bed). This was when I picked it up new in 2004. I asked the salesman about it and even started a discussion in the show room with all the Chevy people, no one knew why. When home, I backed it off, half way. Guess what, the park pedal grabed at the same spot. The "low effort parking brake" feature must be self- adjusting too. This is what is confusing. I noticed all other disc brake Siverados with cables mis-adjusted from the dealers; what gives? How about the design engineer's explation and diagrams?




According to GM-tech in an earlier post(maybe even in this thread), It is supposed to be that way. It is not mis-adjusted. The parking brake is not self adjusting in any way that I know of. The adjusters are under the rotors. You must remove the rotors to get to them. The system is nothing like the drum brake setup at all.

Bill
If you don't like your job, don't go on strike. Just go in every day and do a really half a$$ed job. That's the American way----Homer Simpson

Brunzcuda
Member
Posts 10
04-03-06 03:52 PM - Post#253523    

"Adjusters under the rotor", sounds like a Ford design, I kid. I loosened the cable ajustment(under the bed, front of the tire) till it slacked, then checked the pedal to see if it touched the floor. Next, I tightend the cable untill it put the pedal 2 inches from the floor. That left the adjuster at half way, or middle, not FULLY tight, with no threads left. So far so good, and all seems normal. Now if someone leaves the brake partially set, I would expect that only the amount of brake lining it takes to relive the setting would be worn away. In the old days if a driver left the park brake partially set the main shoes get worn out quickly, as with this new system only the parking shoes get worn. This problem sounds like one, that the Service Dept. CAN use to sell brake jobs to doubtfull people.
slammedman
Member
Posts 6
slammedman
05-02-06 11:39 AM - Post#253524    

I had an 01 Single cab Silverado and the e-brake did not work.
2002 Chevy Tahoe LS
2008 GMC Sierra
1967 Cadillac Coupe Deville

DakotaHooper
Member
Posts 11
05-24-06 10:12 AM - Post#253525    

My yearly Texas inspection sticker is up at the end of the month, so last night I took it to be inspected. After handing over my truck 30 seconds before I hear the tech, “It won’t pass.” What the heck? My parking brake wont hold anything. He put the parking brake on, put it in drive and released the service brake, and the truck surges forward. Unbelievable.

The truck has right at 57K. I have searched and found a recall but you have to have a manual transmission to be a safety factor. Unbelievable. I guess GM says you need to rely on you paw to stop the truck from rolling on an incline.

Just ranting.
2002 GMC Sierra 5.3L

silvervortek
Senior Member
Posts 732
05-29-06 05:52 PM - Post#253526    

On my 99 silverado from new the pedal went to the floor the dealer told me it was normal.
The parking braKE HAS NEVER WORKED PROPERLY. Parking on an incline u have to fully rely on the parking pawl as the parking brake wouldent hold the truck.
i fitted new parking brake shoes with new rotors, i also fitted the larger clip to hold the parking brake shoe in place, but the shoe itself is only held in place with the hub on, the flimsy clip donr nothing to anchor the parking brake shoe in place.
Any way there is no point bi***ing about it as GM doesent care and to be honest they way they GM has being carrying on im not surprised.
I have a 99 silverado, regular cab ,long bed ,was 4 wheel drive,has auto and 5.3 vortek engine. one hundred and thirty

Auburn2
Member
Posts 31
07-04-06 05:38 PM - Post#253527    

My parking brake still works great after 62k miles (03 suburban 1500 AWD). Will hold the car in nutral on a significant incline. I think a lot of you guys have got a lemon or something;.

I also love the no effort pedal and release. It is easy enough that I was able to convince my mother in law and wife to actually use the parking brake.

GM if you are reading this I ask you not to change the design at all.
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
07-05-06 11:02 AM - Post#253528    

It is rare that they work so well.
It is good that you did test the parking brakes.
98BlazerLT
Member
Posts 26
07-15-06 12:07 PM - Post#253529    

My 98 Blazer holds fine. . . if you LEAVE YOUR FOOT ON THE PB. I just don't know anymore. Worked fine when I bought it over two years ago, then one day I was visiting family in a driveway I would not like to own in the winter, sadly disappointed. Good thing my pawl held and I was lucky enough to shift out of Park without help. GM, there is a lesson to be learned here.
Tim

Going from STOCK to ROCK with the simple turn of a key.

2003 Trailblazer LTZ 4x4
1992 Nissan Stanza GXE (Gas Saver)
1998 Blazer LT 4dr 4X4 (RIP)

DownEastDiesel
Member
Posts 14
08-02-06 12:48 PM - Post#253530    

Not fer Nothin but
Not too long ago when I was a kid as I remember clearly
it was called an
EMERGENCY BRAKE

DED
'02 Tahoe Stock, Michelin Cross Terrains

chevy57man
Member
Posts 27
08-05-06 11:37 AM - Post#253531    

My 99 suburban has 70K miles and I park on an hill. I set the brake everytime and it holds fine. the few times I forget I can't back the truck up until I release it. I never set if or years then once I took it to a tire shop and they said they could tell I don't use my brake becasue the pad was too high or low or soenthing and they adjusted it for me. they said you must use it to keep it adjusted properly. So now I use it.
MatthewC
Member
Posts 7
08-20-06 01:03 PM - Post#253532    

Jefro-
I WHOLE-HEARTEDLY SUPPORT AND ENCOURAGE YOUR CALL FOR A CLASS ACTION SUIT, and will look into what the next step needs to be.

I agree completely that the Emergency/parking brake is poorly underdesigned, and GM should recall/repair these. My 02 Tahoe needed to have the Ebrake shoes replaced and adjusted in order to pass its first safety inspection at 2 years old because the brake would not hold the vehicle while in Drive. This is inexcusable. The only people who aren’t shocked by this is long time GM owners who have come to expect this level of “quality”.

Matthew, Austin TX
Royer
Needs to Get Out More Member
Posts 11411
08-24-06 04:39 AM - Post#253533    

You are free to initiate whatever legal action you deem appropriate, but I wouldn't count on success.

The parking brake is intended to hold the vehicle when parked. That is all. Don't forget that your basic 4-wheel hydraulic service brakes are split - with a seperate master cylinder section serving two wheels each. Thus, any single service brake system failure (other than a complete separation of the master cylinder from the vehicle or two SIMULTANEOUS hydraulic system failures) will still leave you able to stop the vehicle with the service brake pedal alone.

Only if this entire service brake system failed would one consider relying upon the parking brake for stopping (along with downshifting the transmission, of course). And, if your parking brake would not hold the vehicle stationary (or against engine torque in gear), it was do to insufficient maintenance or imporoper adjustment.

I own, among others, a 2002 Tahoe Z-71 and the parking brake mechanism functions fine, even after almost 80,000 miles.

Royer
Randy_W
None
Posts 27804
08-24-06 05:24 AM - Post#253534    

Quote:

I own, among others, a 2002 Tahoe Z-71 and the parking brake mechanism functions fine, even after almost 80,000 miles.

Royer





I have the exact same truck and mine won't hold it off the park pall when I'm on an incline, it will add some resistance, but nowhere near enough.
Randy

DON'T mess with Old Men, we didn't get old by being, STUPID!!!

"The veneer of civilization is very thin!" (Arlo)

Landseer
Member
Posts 2
08-25-06 03:57 PM - Post#253535    

01 K2500 Burb --- brake does not hold. ( rear discs, but with inboard drums for ebrake).

Root cause? Axle seals leaked into the e-brake drums. Too much oil on drums for them to hold.
jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
08-29-06 10:39 AM - Post#253536    

If they sell the truck in Texas it must perform several safety checks each year. My truck did not and was finally fixed by GM. They repaid me after I started a lawsuit.
Baddog
Member
Posts 1
10-22-06 11:49 AM - Post#253537    

Hey guys and gals as far as the parking brake is concerned I think what is missing here is its called a parking brake in the old days it was called an emergency brake and was intended to slow you or stop you in the event of brake failure.
silveradolsz7153
Senior Member
Posts 929
10-23-06 04:08 PM - Post#253538    

Quote:

Hey guys and gals as far as the parking brake is concerned I think what is missing here is its called a parking brake in the old days it was called an emergency brake and was intended to slow you or stop you in the event of brake failure.




And according to the Department of Transportation, It still is intended to slow or stop the vehicle in the event of service brake failure, regardless of what GM wants to call it.

Bill
If you don't like your job, don't go on strike. Just go in every day and do a really half a$$ed job. That's the American way----Homer Simpson

chevynut
Ultra Senior Member
Posts 11073
chevynut
10-29-06 07:17 AM - Post#253539    

I was just going to post and ask why my park brake doesn't work on my truck, and I saw this thread.

Okay, I tried to skim the psots in this thread and I'm still confused . I always thought an EMERGENCY BRAKE was required on all vehicles by law, but it sounds like I don't have an EMERGENCY brake on my truck at all .

I have a 2003 Silverado 2500HD with the Duramax Diesel. It has DRUM brkaes on the rear, and the park brake goes to the floor when I depress it and doesn't hold the truck at all when I put it in drive.

I think I'm reading that you have to hold the regular brake to the floor when you apply the park brake, right? (I haven't looked in the owner's manual...I thought I knew how to drive a vehicle after over 35 years of driving!) I've never had to do that in ANY vehicle I've ever owned, and I thinkt hat's a STUPID design. It's kinda like GM saying that to turn left, you have to turn the steering wheel to the right. People get used to the way you use things in a vehicle, and this is a dumb change, IMO. I don't know of ANY other vehicle that requires you to do this.

So how do I stop this 3 ton "tank" if my regular brakes go out due to a total hydraulic system failure? I know the odds of that happening with a dual system are low, but it's still a stupid park brake implementation IMO.

I guess I need to go out to try my "park" brake, to see if it works the way the manual says it's supposed to. Will let y'all know.

I've had problems with GM on other issues with my truck. WOnder why they don't seem to give a damn about customers and won't address anything until you threaten them?
'56 Nomad, C4 Vette F&R suspension, Ramjet 502, Viper T56 6 speed See My Nomad Build
'56 BelAir 2DR Sedan in waiting
'01 Porsche Boxster S
'03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Duramax

chevynut
Ultra Senior Member
Posts 11073
chevynut
10-29-06 09:05 PM - Post#253540    

I was wrong about my rear brakes...they are disc. However, I tried to set the park brake like the owner's manual says, and it won't hold when I put the truck in drive. It does absolutely nothing. I have NEVER used the park brake since I've owned the truck. It sounds like others have had their brake wear out without use too.

I agree with the class action suit if this is really going on with everyone who buys these vehicles. At least we should see if we can get GM to recall them for repairs of the park brake. Is there anything going on? Even a letter-writing campaign to GM? Based on my last ordeal trying to get them to cover DEFECTIVE software, I don't think I'm going to try to get a dealer to fix the brake, because I'm sure they won't offer to do anything.
'56 Nomad, C4 Vette F&R suspension, Ramjet 502, Viper T56 6 speed See My Nomad Build
'56 BelAir 2DR Sedan in waiting
'01 Porsche Boxster S
'03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Duramax

WebMacon
Member
Posts 52
WebMacon
11-14-06 10:13 AM - Post#253541    

Greetings from the Dominican Republic.

Whatever brake it is, it doesn't work here either ....
Chevydudesixty9
Senior Member
Posts 372
Chevydudesixty9
11-14-06 08:34 PM - Post#253542    

Mine holds the truck if I slam the sucker all the way down... It used to hold the truck with just a few clicks till I tried to take off like I stole it with the brake on... If some trucks have a P or E brake that hold then they all have to hold... Our suburban didnt hold either... We paid $700 and with 2 clicks it holds...The Parking brake has to hold no matter what!!!! If it holds my truck, our suburban, and our denali then it should hold yours too...
99 Silverado Ext.Cab 5.3

dandmprop
Member
Posts 2
12-07-06 07:57 AM - Post#253543    

I have a 2000 silverado, it's hasen't worked for months
schraderrl
Member
Posts 6
12-18-06 10:04 PM - Post#253544    

I have a 2000 1500 Z71 that I bought new in January 2000
The parking brake, a small drum in the rear rotor, has never worked from day 1
Now the disk brakes on this truck are the greatest ever
I get 80,000 miles on the rear pads and over 140,000 miles on the front
The anti skid is also much improved over the older system

I had a 1997 1500 2WD before this truck that went through front brakes pads every 30,000 and rear shoes every 60,000 miles

It just goes to show you, “it’s always something”
Meatco1
Member
Posts 2
12-20-06 10:02 AM - Post#253545    

Well, here's another one.

I have a 01 1500 Ex-Cab. The parking brake has never worked. The one time I took it to the dealer, they stated it was normal???

The 4 wheel disk brakes are exception though. I went to 190,000 miles before replacing them, and when pulling the old pads off, found they still had at least 40% of pad material not used.

I wonder how many more miles they might have lasted?

I also have a 05, 1500 Ex-Cab, 4WD with drum rears. I've found the brakes on this truck to be somewhat inferior in comparison to the 01 when it comes to pure stopping power.

Personally, I would rather have the 4 wheel disk brakes with their crappy emergency/parking brakes, than the newer disk/drum arrangements.

JMHO

Richard
Auburn2
Member
Posts 31
01-02-07 11:29 AM - Post#253546    

72,000 miles and still holding like a champ!

For what it is worth I don't know why you guys think GM should be responsible for your parking brake working. If it isn't go in and have it adjusted. Making them responsible for it to me is like asking them to be responsible when your brake pads wear out or when your suspension goes oput of alignment.
chevynut
Ultra Senior Member
Posts 11073
chevynut
01-03-07 06:29 AM - Post#253547    

Quote:

For what it is worth I don't know why you guys think GM should be responsible for your parking brake working.




Why not? Several folks have said that theirs has never worked since new. My truck was used, but the guy who owned it before me was a mechanic and always maintained it well. It's an automatic and I never use the "parking brake". The first time I tried it was when I hooked up a car trailer....it didn't do anything. I put the truck in gear at an idle, and it rolls. I thought it was something specific to MY truck, but after reading this thread it's obviosly a flaw in the design....they should issue a recall.

It's a defective design...why shouldn't GM be responsible? Where is my "emergency brake"? A diesel has very little compression braking, so what am I supposed to do if I'm cruising down Loveland pass and my brakes go out? Even my 56 Chevy has an EMERGENCY brake.

Quote:

If it isn't go in and have it adjusted. Making them responsible for it to me is like asking them to be responsible when your brake pads wear out or when your suspension goes oput of alignment.




Not true IMO. You shouldn't have to pay to have a defective design corrected. There are more guys on this thread with p-brakes that don't work correctly than those that do. There's an obvios problem here.
'56 Nomad, C4 Vette F&R suspension, Ramjet 502, Viper T56 6 speed See My Nomad Build
'56 BelAir 2DR Sedan in waiting
'01 Porsche Boxster S
'03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Duramax

Auburn2
Member
Posts 31
01-03-07 04:56 PM - Post#253548    

Quote:

Not true IMO. You shouldn't have to pay to have a defective design corrected.


Why do you not think you should pay to have your parking brake adjusted? Do you think GM should be responsible for realigning your car when your alignment is out? Should they be responsible when your fuel injectors clog or when your tires get worn bald and blow out? Parking or emergency brakes or whatever you want to call them have required periodic maintenence since they were invented. GM tries to help out by designing something that needs minimal adjustment and now they should pay for it to work forever.
schraderrl
Member
Posts 6
01-03-07 09:45 PM - Post#253549    

Auburn2
I don’t think it has anything to do with adjustment

I have a 2000 year model half ton Silverado, as I posted above
Parking brake has never worked from its birthday (1-20-2000)
The water pump failed at 60,000
The automatic transmission failed at 80,000
I paid for these repairs as one would expect
It has a few electronic glitches, about once a year after I start the truck and am driving down the road I notice all the accessory lights are on and the auto headlights and dash lights won’t come on.
I have to stop and turn off and restart to get the electrical system back to normal
The Chevy dealer never could fix that problem either

If you have this year truck or a year that uses this design of parking brake and it works then consider yourself lucky and pipe down
Sorry if I sound harsh but I don’t think you know how to fix it
If you do, please share
Please don’t say “take it to the dealer”
Been there, dun that
I also have that driveshaft clunk when accelerating from a stop
That started at 16,000
chevynut
Ultra Senior Member
Posts 11073
chevynut
01-04-07 08:06 AM - Post#253550    

Quote:

Why do you not think you should pay to have your parking brake adjusted? Do you think GM should be responsible for realigning your car when your alignment is out? Should they be responsible when your fuel injectors clog or when your tires get worn bald and blow out? Parking or emergency brakes or whatever you want to call them have required periodic maintenence since they were invented. GM tries to help out by designing something that needs minimal adjustment and now they should pay for it to work forever.




Something that isn't used shouldn't wear out. If it wears and needs adjustment when it's not even used, the design is crap. GM should do something about it. I have not used my parking brake since I owned the vehicle. Several others have had the problem the first time they tried theirs on a NEW vehicle. Why do you defend a crappy, faulty design?
'56 Nomad, C4 Vette F&R suspension, Ramjet 502, Viper T56 6 speed See My Nomad Build
'56 BelAir 2DR Sedan in waiting
'01 Porsche Boxster S
'03 Chevy Silverado 2500HD 4x4 Duramax

Fixitfox33
Senior Member
Posts 1094
Fixitfox33
01-04-07 08:36 AM - Post#253551    

Quote:

Quote:

Why do you not think you should pay to have your parking brake adjusted? Do you think GM should be responsible for realigning your car when your alignment is out? Should they be responsible when your fuel injectors clog or when your tires get worn bald and blow out? Parking or emergency brakes or whatever you want to call them have required periodic maintenence since they were invented. GM tries to help out by designing something that needs minimal adjustment and now they should pay for it to work forever.




Something that isn't used shouldn't wear out. If it wears and needs adjustment when it's not even used, the design is crap. GM should do something about it. I have not used my parking brake since I owned the vehicle. Several others have had the problem the first time they tried theirs on a NEW vehicle. Why do you defend a crappy, faulty design?




I'm gonna have to agree with Chevynut here.
The vehicle should have had a good working parking brake in the first place, and then, if never used, it should still be a good working parking brake.

I know it is possible to have rear disc brakes with good working parking brakes, that don't wear out when not used.
I have a fleet of vehicles I maintain. My fleet does not consist entirely of GM products.
I have seen some very derogatory comments about other manufacturers vehicles, but for the sake of this argument, I must tell you, Ford has been using rear disc brakes on some vehicles since 95 that I am sure of.
I had three Explorers, each with over 100,000 tough law enforcement miles on them, and I NEVER even replaced a set of parking brake shoes on any of them. All were used regularly, and all would still hold like new when the vehicles were sold.
Crown Vics, F150's, F250's, F350's, and 450's...all the same.
The technology exists. It CAN be done.

GM just missed it on this item, and yes...I think they should compensate owners, or correct the problem.

When Ford had the shift levers jumping out of Park into Reverse, and injuring people, they fixed it.

Why shouldn't a manufacturer that made a mistake, stand by their name, and get it right?
Don't fix it if it ain't broke,
But if it's broke...I can Fixit.


"Van" (It's actually Richard....but everyone calls me Van.)

VintageCarryall
Frequent Contributor
Posts 2211
02-25-07 07:09 AM - Post#1104742    

Yet the 8 lug GMT800 trucks as well as those 6 luggers (Suburban, Tahoe and friends) with dual piston rear calipers seem to have quite long lived parking brakes.
1994 Dodge Caravan SWB 3.3L V6
1962 Studebaker Lark 4 door 350 Chevy/TH350


AKA-KWIK
Member
Posts 79
AKA-KWIK
03-28-07 03:26 PM - Post#1130543    

Park brake is the ONLY failure we have experienced in 100K on our 02 Sierra. Only time it is ever used is on our slight grade driveway when I work under it or jack it. The pad on one side got out of alignment or sagged and eat the rotor. Really poor design. It is a wonderful truck. After 100K miles we had an alignment done...well they checked it, and it was still dead nuts on. Barely have to rotate tires the GM geometry is so good, but the park brake is a sad, sad design, that GM should regret. Just one mans opinion...
'97 Hendricks Camaro SS
'03 50th A/E 'vette
'02 Sierra

AKA-KWIK
Member
Posts 79
AKA-KWIK
03-28-07 03:30 PM - Post#1130547    

Oh one more thing. It still has the original front pads...but I had to replace the e-brake??? come on now! Rear pads got replaced because the E brake failed and ate the rotor.
'97 Hendricks Camaro SS
'03 50th A/E 'vette
'02 Sierra

Auburn2
Member
Posts 31
04-01-07 07:33 AM - Post#1133084    

  • chevynut Said:
</font><blockquo te><font class="small">Quote:&l t;/font><hr /><br /> Why do you not think you should pay to have your parking brake adjusted? Do you think GM should be responsible for realigning your car when your alignment is out? Should they be responsible when your fuel injectors clog or when your tires get worn bald and blow out? Parking or emergency brakes or whatever you want to call them have required periodic maintenence since they were invented. GM tries to help out by designing something that needs minimal adjustment and now they should pay for it to work forever. <br /><br /><hr /></blockquote>& lt;font class="post"><br /><br />Something that isn't used shouldn't wear out. If it wears and needs adjustment when it's not even used, the design is crap. GM should do something about it. I have not used my parking brake since I owned the vehicle. Several others have had the problem the first time they tried theirs on a NEW vehicle. Why do you defend a crappy, faulty design?



If that were true there would not be a time limit on warrantys. Your tires will dry rot if not used, unless maintenence is performed so will all your seals. Paint will fade and chip.

Coyote
Member
Posts 21
Coyote
04-16-07 10:54 AM - Post#1144243    

2001 Chevy 1500 Silverado
5.3 L
108,000 miles

Well...this weekend, I dug into this task. The brake shoes have never had to be replaced. I think the hardest part of this job was getting the 18mm bolts off that hold the brake mounting bracket. Those suckers are covered in LocTite.


I replaced the driver side parking brake shoe and clip. It looked terrible. The self-adjustment screw looked like it had never moved. The old clip allows the shoe to rotate under torque and that ground down the shoe, in one area, to the bare metal and 1/8" into the drum area of the rotor.
The new shoe and clip went on, only after having to grind down the drum surface back to flush.

The passenger side was fine, but I went ahead and adjusted the adjustment screw and replaced the clip on that side.

It all works great now, but this was a piss poor design by GM and they should acknowledge that fact.

We'll see how long it keeps working.
Raider Power

Mr B
Member
Posts 7
06-07-07 04:28 PM - Post#1181344    

Well, here I thought I was the only one with the prob.
I have an 01 Suburban 1500 and had to have the dealer adjust the park Break 2 times while under warranty. It only lasted less than a month both times. My E-Brake as we call it has not worked since. In the dirve way, in park, E-brake pedal on the floor, the truck rolls forward until it clunks on the pawl.
I tow a Bass Boat every weekend and it scares the hell out of me everytime I put it in park on the steep ramp and get out to launch my boat by myself.
The dealer never said my E-brake pads are worn. They just adjusted the cable for my temporary 2-3 week fix. Very poor design.
These folks that say "just adjust the cable yourself" that wouldnt be a problem if you did not have to do it every month.
Yes, I believe I should be able to get out of my vehicle on an incline, in neutral with the E-Brake on and have it hold my vehicle in place.
Anonymous


06-13-07 08:50 AM - Post#1184967    

I logged on to find out about replacement disc shields for my 00 Blazer and found this, got to add my story. Bought fm dealer,used with 20k,also warranty(aftermkt) to 50k. Later at 40K when backing heard horrific screech from rear wheels. I always use parking brake. When I pulled rear disc (combo hat) I found the adjustment srew had broken in half (the notched rim) and wedged in between the shoe and lining. I thought this unusual until I removed the pass side and found the same! Scored drums required repl and dealer refused so I had to pay deductible on this obvious engineering error. Now 80K mi later I'm replacing the drums again for severe rust. Disc shield (inboard) is rusted out. Any idea on replacing? If these parts are so vulnerable to rust, why not paint exposed areas?
Bad Bowtie
Valued Contributor
Posts 4563
Bad Bowtie
06-13-07 12:16 PM - Post#1185113    

That's a good question...
GMC. We are Professional Grade.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/2004VHO

72Sprint454
Member
Posts 29
07-21-07 04:21 PM - Post#1213616    

Am posting anothe rproblem but this one caught my eye and i felt i would post about my trucks.

I had a 2001 2500HD Chevy, no parking brake.
I now have a 2000 GMC Sonoma, no parking brake.
I am in the process of trading and have driven a coule of full sized trucks in the past week. None have had working parking brakes. I figured there was a problem so it's the first thing I check now.
72 GMC Sprint 468 BB w/N2O 54 BelAir under construction

coastaloutfitters
Member
Posts 14
10-08-07 01:12 PM - Post#1269943    

i inherited a 99 z71 silverado 1500, at 59,000 mi the pk brake was taco'd inside rear discs and pads, mechanic said this was very common, i called gm, no recalls for my model yr ??????

i have never used the brake and ck lever often....
54 3100 truck
74 vette conv.
99 Tahoe
99 Z71 4X4

chevyjim
Member
Posts 33
11-27-07 05:21 AM - Post#1305412    

You can add me to the list. Tried to use my 04 Sub brake to park on a medium sloped driveway and nothing. I haven't had a chance to see what the exact problem is, but will this weekend.
Jim,
Merritt Island, FL
2004 Suburban
2000 Blazer

DenaliXL
Contributor
Posts 133
12-07-07 12:27 PM - Post#1313082    

Me too. Just failed NJ inspection for one thing... parking brake.

I only use it when I'm jacking the truck or when parking on a hill with a trailer. Changed rear pads & rotors at 40K and parking brakes looked okay but don't recall testing them. 64K now. No grinding, ust won't hold the truck from rolling on a mild grade from a stop. I'm hoping its just a cable adjustment.

If its barely used and nothing rusted in place, it should still work.
onebad60biscayne
Member
Posts 241
12-18-07 09:26 PM - Post#1321947    

2001 Suburban and add me to the list. E-Brake to the floor. I don't think you will get anywhere with a law suit until the defect starts getting people maimed or worse killed.
I love working on old cars. It feels good to bring a car back to life that someone has given up for dead. Cars owned: 60 Chevy Belair 2dr, 69 Chevelle SS, 68 Mustang, (2) 59 Fords, 2001 Suburban, 2006 Harley Softail

gearshuck
Member
Posts 4
01-10-08 12:06 PM - Post#1339593    

One more in the list!
In response to the people who ask if GM should replace or repair stuff that wears, I say yes if it wears due to a bad design. If my headlights went out as often as the "Non"-parking brake, Yes, I would expect someone to fix the problem. If my tires wore out due to a defective design, yes. And so on. This is not "NORMAL" to any sane person.
In reading all the 9 pages of posts, I theorize that the adjustment cables are out of threads is due to the dealers trying to get the bad design to work and this may be the reason for the premature wear. Sounds like those that have backed off the adjustment have had better service from the "brake". Maybe they are adjusting it all the way to try to get some pedal resistance and this is not the correct setting.
Just a thought.
It is our own fault (the American public) for wanting everything new every year. Look at the bug. They kept making it virtually the same year after year and it worked and the parts of one 10 years old will work on a newer one. I have owned Fords that a part from the same year model wouldn't fit another same vehicle. They have a better idea you know. Make is so you can't fix it so you can sell another one or lots of new parts.
As a side note, I love the front wheel bearings on my 99 sil. You can't just by a $10 bearing, you have to buy a $180 hub with the bearing installed.
Sorry for the rant, but you shouldn't have gotten me started.
Best wishes,
We might as well let the Chinese start making all our cars and trucks for us. ha ha
Wonder why all we get is junk?
wings59
"8th Year" Gold Supporting Member
Posts 2107
wings59
01-10-08 05:38 PM - Post#1339780    

Mine failed also..03 Tahoe
Larry

36 Dodge Street rod..........owned 23 years..Sparks Award Hot August Night Reno '99

59 Impala Sport Coupe

Chevy3133
Newbie
Posts 9
02-25-08 02:35 PM - Post#1374385    

Ive got a 00 1500 Silverado and my parking brake cable on the driver side rusted so bad that when i engaged the parking brake it would not release. I didnt find this out until i did the brakes, but by that time the parking brake pad was all but gone. So unless i get a whole new parking brake on the driver side i cannot even use my parking brake.
Court93Z71
Member
Posts 9
03-10-08 02:49 PM - Post#1384721    

I have an 03 Z71 that has no parking brake as well. Very disappointing having been a Chevy fan my whole life.

I know GM has the technology to make a working parking brake with rear rotors. I am a mechanic in the Army and our HMMWV's (Hum-Vee's) have 4 wheel disc brakes and a VERY functional parking brake. For the military Hummers the parking brake has to work because the transmission has NO "park" position to hold the vehicle. I am really surprised GM didn't use the same setup on our vehicles. The Army started using the Hummers around 1985, so it's not "new" technology.
'03 Chevy Z71 5.3 '93 Suzuki GSXF 600

jefro
Very Senior Member
Posts 1121
04-28-08 09:47 AM - Post#1421999    

gearshuck said,
"It is our own fault (the American public) for wanting everything new every year."

I disagree with that. My father and grandfather were UAW tool and die makers. In the 1960's my father described what is wrong with American auto production (plenty and it hasn't changed). The real mechanics that know about machines know why something will fail. As Americans we don't respect the knowledge of the worker. In Japan and Germany the common worker has a say in the production process. In fact senior workers are sought out and selected for their wisdom.

A parking brake is not a new item. How many common people on this forum know that the design stinks? Plenty. Do they have a degree? No, did they see a working product before in their life that worked just fine? Yes.
Brunzcuda
Member
Posts 10
04-28-08 10:39 PM - Post#1422587    

Hi, The pick up now has 10K miles(like new), and the brake still works. The trick, as I see it, is to pump the normal brake pedal, while the park brake is on. Or, trade off, between the two pedals, on flat ground, and you will see the park pedal grab sooner, or higher; once every 1000 mi., or if you are not getting the tightness it is capable of. I tow a car hauler, and it holds it good when loading the Cudas. So, I am working with it, so far, I have replaced the shocks with RSX rancho's and the bouncing has stopped, I recommend them, also I have found no fault with the steering column links.
JeffsJeep04
Newbie
Posts 1
05-07-08 07:36 AM - Post#1427955    

01 silverado RCSB 5.3, absolutely no parking brake. This is the first automatic I've driven in a while, and have gotten used to setting the parking brake. Nothing. On flat ground, it makes no difference in takeoff in gear with it on or off. This weekend I will likely be taking the brakes apart to get a closer look.

This wouldn't be so bad if the shoes weren't so expensive and the updated parts would fix the issue for sure. I'd love to get a retrofit kit to update to the dual shoe system like the HD trucks have.

I'm an ex-mechanic, so it's no issue for me to do this work, but I feel for those folks that don't have the time or ability to do this and are getting socked by the dealers for this obvious defect.
SilveradoDave
Newbie
Posts 7
09-29-08 06:39 PM - Post#1531951    

Here's my 2002 silverado:
less than 60k mile on my very first new vehicle of my 47yrs of life and 8 previous vehicles owned.

-My badly knocking 5.3L is not normal...Chevy says carbon causing valves to stick! $3000 not normal...
-My ticking lifters is not normal...
- Stearing "coupling" replaced 3 times until Chevy finally made a new part that worked...!st on warranty last 2 on me... not normal
-The constant vibration at highway speeds is not normal...
- clunking noises every time I go over a bump not normal...
- Speakers breaking off their mounts not normal...
- parking brake? had the truck in reverse(error), parking brake on and it started climbing up! my driveway.

Chevy is loosing it along with a lot of customers. Going back to Toyota. Sorry USA I tried to bad you don't. I work to hard for my money to put up with this.

Chevy mechanic/talk folks; I must say thanks for all your input though. I get more useful info from here than my dealer. Tough spot to be in sometimes. Don't let our frustration stop you.

p.s it is very easy to take off with the brake on and not notice since it doesn't do much. At least they gave us a beep to let us know it's on.

my ramblings....

occupant
Member
Posts 100
occupant
10-16-08 08:21 PM - Post#1543965    

  • jgrimmy Said:
</font><blockquo te><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr /><br /> This is the Chevy service talk(BS) from so called pro's that [censored]'s me off. Maybe you "Old Wheezers" ought to get out to actual work room floor and ask the real pro's.<br /><br />The Parking Brake MUST by state law hold the vehicle. It must hold if you have an AT or Standard tranny. It is a safety part. <br /><br /> <br /><br /><hr /></blockquote>& lt;font class="post"> <br /><br />Where have you found this law? I know of no federal law regarding this. Please post your source.<br /><br />The last bastion of a scoundrel is personal attacks! Calling the people who have resonded to this post "Old Wheezers" is ridiculous! I am on the service floor every day of the week, and I know others who have responded are also.<br /><br />Good luck in court, I hope your not embarassed easily.<br /><br />John<br /><br />



Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 105 in a nutshell:

"Parking brakes must hold a vehicle in forward and reverse directions on a 30% grade for five minutes."

Actual text: http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2003/octqtr/49cf...

I don't know if someone has posted this link in the past 5 YEARS on this thread, but I thought I might add something relevant. My mother-in-law drives a 2001 1500 ECSB 5.3, and her parking brake gets new shoes every time she has a brake job done. She claims the parking brake has never worked properly and she keeps wheel chocks under the back seat for this purpose. She'll park up against a curb if available, too.
Alan Moore - Columbus, OH

02 F-450 Nomar wrecker, PSD/6spd
01 Windstar LX, black, 3.8L/auto
00 Suburban LS 4x2, white, 5.3L/auto
97 IH 4700 19' rollback, DT444/auto
95 3500HD Chevron wrecker, 350/auto
92 F450 17' rollback, IDI/5spd

Smitty_Chevy
Contributor
Posts 846
Smitty_Chevy
02-21-09 06:32 PM - Post#1635528    

  • aservicemanager Said:
...Be honest, how many of you have actually read the owner's manual ?



I'd say most of us here have read our owners manual. I know that's the first thing I do on a new vehicle. People that hang out here are not you're typical run to the dealer with their hair on fire types every time something doesn't work right. That's just my observation of the post I read here. Most people seem to be more of the do it yourself type here which means they know a little about what's going on under the hood.

ZUL8TR
Contributor
Posts 105
ZUL8TR
05-13-09 05:22 AM - Post#1696778    

One more to the list. Took her to the tranny shop cause I thought my rear end was going to gernade because of the clanking sound from the rear end. They replaced the whole parking brake set up. And guess what? It still does it now and again but not near as bad. I'm going to take it back at the end of the work week and see whats up. 01' half ton LT extended cab with the 5.3 4x4 Wonder why it still does it. Is the pedel suppose to go to the floor easly? I remeber someone saying it's an easy push peddle?
01' Extended cab 1\2 ton with the 5.3 4X4
K&N intake
Cat back duals
Wait4me Tune
Edlebrock shocks
250AMP alternator
Nice stereo
Amsoil everywhere, the stuff is amazing!!!
Sea-Foam believer
ScanGaugeII (is slick as all hell)
Others

Bad Bowtie
Valued Contributor
Posts 4563
Bad Bowtie
05-13-09 06:19 AM - Post#1696802    

Yes, the e-brake pedal goes "down easy".
GMC. We are Professional Grade.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/2004VHO

redroc86
Forum Newbie
Posts 1
06-26-09 01:25 PM - Post#1723906    

Glad this thread still is running. I had posted my problem (Parking Assist Brake Problem) on another forum, pickuptrucks.com a number of years ago when I started having this frustrating problem.

First, I want to say that I have a 2002 2500HD Silverado and my Parking Brake does not work any longer. It did for about the first 20 months but has no worked since.


This history of taking it into the dealer is long and I don't know that listing every excruciating detail would serve a purpose here. I will summarize.

I probably did not notice that the parking brake pedal slowly started getting closer and closer to the floor until it was on the floor and not holding. I was living with the parents at the time. Their driveway is exactly 15 degrees. The street is nearly as steep. We live in south western Pennsylvania, very hilly. I always apply the parking brake out of habit due to the hills even when on a flat area. The correct procedure taught to my brother and myself by dad. All Automatic Transmission vehicles in the family. Shift into neutral, apply parking brake until you believe it will hold, slowly let of service brake (main hydraulic brake) to test that vehicle is holding in place, press parking brake pedal further if not. When holding with no service brake, shift into park and turn vehicle off. This was don't to keep the weight of the vehicle off the parking pawl int eh transmission so that the weight of the vehicle did not keep you from being able to shift into gear when you start up and are heading out.

BTW, after a statement by the dealer, I verified in the service manual that it is referred to as a Parking Assist Brake. Not Emergency Brake, not even a Parking Brake which would insinuate that it could hold the vehicle without the transmission.

I believe that a vehicle should have a backup brake system in case of a hydraulic failure, despite the dual hydraulic system. Not being able to get your vehicle to run/move is too bad. Not being able to get it to stop, that is another story. Some of the GM techs on this forum have stated keeping service brakes properly maintained should not necessitate having a separate backup system to stop the vehicle.

Everyone had heard of Murphy and his law. When I take my truck to the dealer for any kind of brake work, I doubt they check every single part of the system and in particular don't inspect the brake lines. Road hazards can cause problem that just can't be taken into consideration.

So here are my highlights.

In for inspection, ask them to adjust so it will hold. They adjust, no better. Have it in two or three more times, no better. Right rear cable replaced as some point here. Still not holding.

After one trip down, and when I say trip I mean 30 minutes each way to head to a dealer further outside Pittsburgh where I bought the truck from because I heard the service was better and have had problems with my local dealer in the past, I take it to my parents (moved out by this time) and it still would not hold.

I take it home, pull the left side, nothing notable. Then pull the right side. Something on shoes and in drum part of the disc. Call the old man, he comes over and says they are contaminated. Looks like the rear seal leaking (I noticed a number of other on this thread reporting this). I take it back, they replace the seal. Less than a week later, seal fails catastrophically, had to have it flat-bedded the 30 minutes to dealer. They inform me that the axel housing is 0.018 out of round and they have no idea how their mechanic had just gotten a replacement seal in there. They keep the truck for one and half weeks while a new housing is shipped and they swap all the parts over onto it.

Got new shoes, rotors and pads out of the deal. Still does not hold.

Back a few more times. They replace pedal assembly and play around. There is a little hill behind their dealership where they park some of their inventory and they were testing it there.

Service manager was actually doing the testing. I noticed when I was going in the forms for service when from white to yellow. Don't know what that was about but I think they were expecting problems. I had tried to speak to GM district rep who they talked to and even had him look at the truck when he was on a local visit. Never got to talk to him myself.

Filed a complaint with the NHTSA.

Some on this board have mentioned adjustments of the cable with the thread under the driver side in front of rear wheel. That is on an equalizer setup which I wish I had. That cable with thread would come from cable on end of pedal assembly and go through a bracket. Cables from each drum actuating lever would go to either side of this bracket allowing the tension to each cable to equalize as the bracket would distribute the tension equally to each of the rear cables.

I wish I had this. I don't The cable from the pedal cable coupler goes all the way back to the left rear wheel. There is an adapter in roughly the location the Y equalizer would be that allows the right rear cable to attach. Problem is that this does not an equalization of tension across both drum/shoes on the left and right.

If the left start week in the drum assembly is adjusted so the shoe contacts the drum sooner and harder than the right, then there is no friction or at least not nearly the same applied to the right side. Holding power is cut in half. If the right star wheel is adjusted so that shoe contacts right drum sooner/hard then left doesn't get the same friction force.

Dealer (Service Manager) agreed and we stood there while mechanics (two of them) applied parking brake pedal so shoes just started engaging and we rotated tires and adjusted star wheels until we thought there was equal amount of drag/friction.

Seemed a little better but pedal still to the floor and not holding.

Eventually I gave up and filed that complaint.

I also found the recall on the same exact model but with the manual transmission.

So if you don't have an AT with parking pawl, GM does not feel that it is worth recalling due to the expense but will recall the manual transmissions due to roll-away incidents. NHTSA complaints state that roll-away incidents in AT versions of the vehicle are statistically the same as in peer vehicles (apparently GM, Ford and Dodge trucks with Automatic transmissions all have roll-away incidents). I hope no children are in front of these acceptable number of roll-away incidents.

I have considered trying to swap out the cable system for one that has the equalizer but there are brackets welded to the frame that are different for these setups than what is on my 2500HD.

The local mechanic that I now take my vehicle to says this is why he traded in his Silverado for a newer one to get rear drum brakes.

I'm very happy with my truck otherwise and shelled out a pretty penny for lots of upgrades. I planned to drive it into the ground. Trucks hold their value. When it is no longer convenient as a grocery getter, I'm sure I will keep it in running order to take advantage of the 3/4 ton for hauling.

And yes, as a number of posters have mentioned, the trucks don't hold when empty let alone when launching their boats or hauling something.

I think 3/4 ton pickup rated to actually hold 1.5 tons should have a parking "assist" brake that actually holds the truck independent of the transmission parking pawl.

My parking brake cable broke just before memorial day. The cable running from left rear to pedal cable coupler. Duct taped the ends up. Been gently easing of the service brake to rest on that parking pawl. Hoping I would have a problem shifting into gear when I later go to pull out.

One other thing I'd like to mention is that I gave up on the GM rotors. I put Cragar Cryogenic discs and new pads up front last summer and then got the drum in a disc version for the rear this past December prior to inspection. Had the local mechanic do that since it was a bit messy out this past December in Pittsburgh. They replaced disc/rotor and put new shoes and pads on. I supplied all parts. Nice of them since they usually make a little off the parts they sell. they adjust but still not holding.

I repeat, brand new shoes and rotor (drum in disc) so no wear issue like with the reported driving away with brake still engaged. Still not holding.

Perhaps the pedal slowly moving to the floor is the clue that the cables might be stretching.

All cables have been replaced except the one that just broke.

Cables are probably made of the same cheap crap that the tailgate cables were necessitating a recall.

That only happened because people got hurt climbing into, standing/sitting on or loading things on the tailgate and had it collapse on them.

If GM doesn't want to recall and you get a bunch of BS from dealers until you are out of warranty that is fine but how about giving me a lifetime warranty on tranny work when that parking pawl goes. Also, how about paying for all damage cause by my truck rolling away. Then I'll be OK except if someone gets injured by it.

BTW, GM, don't expect my insurance company to sit by and pay for that damage. Remember, I filed my complaint to the NHTSA and have that as well as copies of all the service work (including the yellow sheets). I may not sue, there may be no class action lawsuit, and you may not care right now with your financial problems but don't be surprised if one day the shoe drops on you.

I guess I'll have to follow my little brother's example and buy a rice burning Tundra next time I go shopping.

sorry this post was so long but it could easily have been worse.

One last thing, if we all have this problem and surely others do and don't realize or have been putting up with, why doesn't someone look at this as an economic opportunity and design and aftermarket product to replace this sloppy system on my precious.

I would definitely pony up a few pennies for a dependable system. I'm not sure that I would even trust GM with something this important since they would try to come out with the cheapest fix they could for a recall that would cost them money.

As far as I'm concerned that is part of the problem on my truck since it does not have the equalizer setup but instead this adapter thing that doesn't make sense to me.




Legbat
Forum Newbie
Posts 1
09-05-09 10:16 AM - Post#1766843    

I've read SO much on this subject that my head's spinning and it's quite possible that I missed what the resolution actually is. At this point I don't expect anything to be covered under warranty being that mine is a 2000 model. I just want to know what to buy so I can correct the problem myself. Is this something that has to be purchased at the dealership or could I pick up what I need at the local parts store? Thanks.
Cardinal24
Forum Newbie
Posts 88
Cardinal24
01-23-10 03:17 PM - Post#1847946    

I have a 2004 Chevy pickup and I too have a bad parking break system. I fish most of the summer and I have a 6000 lb boat so I would use my parking break every time I would launch and retrieve my boat.

Well after one year the parking break started acting up, it would not fully release. So the truck would squeal and feel sluggish for several feet after disengaging the parking break. The sluggishness would go away but the squeal would last for days so I quit using the break.

When I took it in last year to have the breaks done at an independent break shop. I asked the tech to repair the parking breaks and he told me to not to do that on this truck. He said they where a poor design and that it would just start causing problems again soon.

Now when a guy who fixes breaks for a living tells you this then tells you to save your money, you tend to believe he is correct. So I did not have them repaired.

Steve H.
Traverse City, Michigan

2004 2500HD Crew Cab

BadMcRandy
Forum Newbie
Posts 1
BadMcRandy
02-11-10 05:45 PM - Post#1860912    

I have been wondering what to do with my parking brakes that are non-existant on my 2000 silverado. There's a lot of good information here that I can work with. I'll let you guys know what I find
SilverSurfer2000
Forum Newbie
Posts 21
02-28-10 01:55 AM - Post#1870904    

The parking brake on my 2000 Silverado won't hold the truck except on flat ground and the slightest grade. Tried adjusting the cable for more tension but it broke. Replaced the cable and checked all other parts. Still can't get it to work properly.
57 Chevy Thunder
Member
Posts 47
03-21-10 09:15 AM - Post#1883904    

WOW what a "passionate" topic !!!!

Well guys, I'm not a GM employee. I have replaced those little park brake shoes on two trucks. I suspect they were ruined because a previous owner/driver had not set it hard enough. (like put the pedal all the way down.)

I suspect the term (and concept) of "emergency brake" went away about the same time 4-wheel drum brakes disappeared. For most of my life, all "service brakes" already have the failure and safety factors (so-called "emergency") designed in.

Truly, it is only a "Park brake."
Yes, with new shoes, adjusted properly, and SET PROPERLY, it will hold the vehicle, just as it was designed to do.

I think we should not expect it to do more than it was designed to do.

Good grief guys,,,,,
2002 GMC Sierra
2002 Bonneville
1957 Chevy street-rod truck

grampa54
Forum Newbie
Posts 39
03-26-10 07:25 PM - Post#1887473    

I have a 1998 s10 blazer I bought for the wife and kids with that sticker in it and have pounded the guts out of it and she stills runs like a top never had to do a thing to it other than wear and tear breaks shocks ext...
Cardinal24
Forum Newbie
Posts 88
Cardinal24
05-03-10 07:03 AM - Post#1909002    

57 Chevy Thunder,

Why does an owner have to constantly use their parking break to keep it working and then have it fail between break replacement anyway?

I have owned nothing but Chevy trucks and suburbans since 1988. I have also been the original owner on all of these vehicles except one of them. I have had problems with every parking/emergency break on each of these Chevy vehicles. I have learned to use the parking break often in order to keep it working. Non-use will cause it to malfunction quickly.

On my current truck 04 I have used the parking break every time I launch my boat and several times a month in order to help keep it working. Well it still failed. This is a problem. When you know there is a problem and you do what you can to eliminate the problem and it still breaks it is considered a piece of junk. Yes, I could take the truck into a break shop every two months and have it serviced but if that is the only way it will keep working then the maker of the vehicle need to revamp the breaking system and make it work every time without fail and not needing as much maintenance.

I mean they make everything else last nearly 100,000 miles with very little care, other than fuel, oil, break pads, tires and windshield wiper fluid. But they cannot make a manual break system last in between break replacements? Come on man this is simple stuff here. Skimping on a part is called skimping and when I pay $40,000 for a pick-up truck to haul my boat, snowmobiles and my family I am not looking to skimp on anything.
Steve H.
Traverse City, Michigan

2004 2500HD Crew Cab

Bad Bowtie
Valued Contributor
Posts 4563
Bad Bowtie
05-03-10 09:13 AM - Post#1909086    

  • crdl2415 Said:
57 Chevy Thunder,

Why does an owner have to constantly use their parking break to keep it working and then have it fail between break replacement anyway?

I have owned nothing but Chevy trucks and suburbans since 1988. I have also been the original owner on all of these vehicles except one of them. I have had problems with every parking/emergency break on each of these Chevy vehicles. I have learned to use the parking break often in order to keep it working. Non-use will cause it to malfunction quickly.

On my current truck 04 I have used the parking break every time I launch my boat and several times a month in order to help keep it working. Well it still failed. This is a problem. When you know there is a problem and you do what you can to eliminate the problem and it still breaks it is considered a piece of junk. Yes, I could take the truck into a break shop every two months and have it serviced but if that is the only way it will keep working then the maker of the vehicle need to revamp the breaking system and make it work every time without fail and not needing as much maintenance.

I mean they make everything else last nearly 100,000 miles with very little care, other than fuel, oil, break pads, tires and windshield wiper fluid. But they cannot make a manual break system last in between break replacements? Come on man this is simple stuff here. Skimping on a part is called skimping and when I pay $40,000 for a pick-up truck to haul my boat, snowmobiles and my family I am not looking to skimp on anything.




GM took the easy road, they switched back to drum rear brakes in 2005 on all 1/2 tons! Pretty dumb that they couldn't fix the problem IMO.



Heck my new 2009 crew cab still has rear drums!!

GMC. We are Professional Grade.

http://www.cardomain.com/id/2004VHO

Cardinal24
Forum Newbie
Posts 88
Cardinal24
05-04-10 11:56 AM - Post#1909795    

I have a 2500. Did they switch those back also?
Steve H.
Traverse City, Michigan

2004 2500HD Crew Cab

siderman
Forum Newbie
Posts 10
06-07-10 10:31 AM - Post#1926469    

My 2000 Silverado parking brake is almost non-existant. Had it adjusted years ago and was marginally better and later was told it needed fixing/replacement and would cost a small fortune! I said HOW MUCH? R U KIDING ME?
Stuchevy
Forum Newbie
Posts 1
06-24-10 06:24 PM - Post#1935466    

I spent hundreds on repairs after parking brakes & system disintegrated on my 2002 Avalanche. No recall despite many similar complaints. I would join a class action lawsuit. Anyone else?
Brunzcuda
Member
Posts 10
05-07-11 09:54 PM - Post#2087315    

Hi drivers, It's 2011 and my mile gage is only @ 12K, the park still works and I tightened the cable once, just enough to take the slack out @ THE LEVER ON THE BACKING PLATE THAT IS ON EACH REAR WHEEL, using the cable adjuster on the drivers side frame in front of rear tire. The FEEL on the park pedal is a smooth ratchet that will go to the floor even when properly working, try resetting park, after pumping the foot pedal with the park brake on. I tow a car hauler and use a Prodigy brake controller and I'm pleased with the 4 discs ABS on my 2004 1500 Silverado ext. cab with 5.3 full tow package, for $22K out the door, new Jan 2004 w/ 0% 6yr. financing.
ken besancenez
Forum Newbie
Posts 28
07-10-11 05:47 AM - Post#2112501    

I was traveling about 45mph the other day when I came to a stop sign pressed on the brakes, all the way to the floor (talk about panic setting in) the car on the right have kids in it I knew my emergency brake didn't ever work. The man upstairs must have been watching I managed to slow down and drop it in low range and pull over. The rear brake line had a pin hole in it from corrosion. I had it towed to the dealer, what a sloppy job they done at a cost of 357..00
My problen is adjusting the e brake there is no more take up on the cable adjuster, I have never used the brake since it never did work, I guess I'm old school never used them but now I sure need it to work. Any help would be appreciated It is a 2001 silverado 4 whl dr. thanks kens41
DougRoost
Forum Newbie
Posts 20
08-10-11 07:26 AM - Post#2123962    

I agree it works acceptably -- but no more -- when properly adjusted on my 2000 Suburban 1500. I just wish it was easier to adjust, as in externally. I recently replaced rear brake pads and rotors again and forgot to adjust the parking brake before re-mounting the calipers. What a hassle to remove the wheels, calipers, and worst of all, caliper bracket that is torqued so tightly! Other cars I've had you could adjust the rear brake shoes externally, by simply jacking the car up and removing nothing but a rubber plug.
weynandp
Forum Newbie
Posts 1
10-23-11 08:56 PM - Post#2150473    

About my 2002 Chevy Silverado - If the parking brake is so great for these years, why did gm go back to rear drum brakes? Because of this problem, piston slap, failing tailgate cables and popping front end when i turn left, I've purchased 5 other vehicles, none of them gm! When will gm pay the government back for the money they borrowed while designing and building this garbage?
mcyphert
"5th Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts 247
mcyphert
10-31-11 02:04 PM - Post#2153127    

My parking brake hasn't worked for years. Put new shoes on when I replaced the rotors, but could never get it adjusted right.
Mike

YOUNG57
Contributor
Posts 608
11-15-11 08:31 AM - Post#2158225    

2003 Tahoe has almost no parking brake holding power. I almost never use them because I almost never park on an incline but the other day I did so I needed them and there was no parking brake. I applied them all the way to the floor while still in Drive, nothing, put it in Neutral, still nothing. Thought I needed to throwing a rock under a tire.

Got home and crawled under it to see. The parking brake cable from the driver’s pedal to the spreader bar has no adjustment \left; nut is bottomed out on threaded rod. Pulled rear wheels, calipers and rotors to look at parking brake shoes/drums, shoes and drums look new with no wear, never used them.

Adjusted the star wheel out to get the shoes to barely touch the drums and now I have some holding, enough for slight grade, but pedal still goes all the way to the floor and with little holding power. Would have expected it lock up tight with some pedal left.

While attempting to adjust the cable and the spreader bar I noticed I can pull about two inches of cable from the drivers parking brake pedal as if I’m compressing a spring. That means I am taking up two inches of slack (compressing spring) before the cable starts to actuate the parking brakes at the shoes/drums.

Seems these shoe/drum parking brakes are supposed to be self-adjusting but I’m not doing something to activate them. What is the procedure to get them to adjust?

Why is there two inches of slack in the cable before it starts to engage the shoes? How can I adjust that out?

YOUNG57

jham0077
"3rd Year" Silver Supporting Member
Posts 510
03-08-12 09:01 AM - Post#2199968    

You pegged that one Smitty. Service on a product should be just that, service. No matter where it came from or who changed the oil first.
How many people "adjust" their rear brakes(drums) by backing up and pumping the pedal? I don't know that much about rear disc because I've never owned anything with them. Most backing plates have access holes one can stick a screwdriver in and turn the adjuster. That's something that's always bothered me to hear, "That's a common problem with that model. That'll be $199.95 please.". You almost expect to hear "See you next time it breaks becasue of crappy parts and bad design."....
Keep throwing money at it, it'll get better...
95 Tahoe 5.7 w/5 spd
Gone but not forgotten,
87 LWB 4x4 5.0 w/3 spd granny,
84 SWB 4x4 5.7 w/3 spd granny,
93 Full Size Blazer 5.7 w/5 spd,
97 Step-side Vortec w/5 spd.
I like shifting gears.

Blue Burb
Forum Newbie
Posts 6
07-12-12 12:20 PM - Post#2247452    

2001 K-1500;
I had the problem too.
We bought it used. The pedal went to the floor but the dealer said it was normal.
finally came apart a couple of years ago.
Just got them fixed.
They still don't seem dependable.
My buddy has a '99 with rear drum and his work well.
Steve
SF Bay Area
2001 Suburban 5.3L 1500 4WD Autoride 135K miles
1968 Malibu stock 327 4bbl dual exhaust

occupant
Member
Posts 100
occupant
08-08-12 09:05 AM - Post#2257104    

My second post in this thead. Same problem, different truck, 2000 Suburban and the parking brake is about as useless as Tic Tac under the tire in holding the truck still. Inspection is due in December and I'm not looking forward to spending a ton of money to have it fixed and then still not work as it should (but it MIGHT pass inspection if it holds "enough")
Alan Moore - Columbus, OH

02 F-450 Nomar wrecker, PSD/6spd
01 Windstar LX, black, 3.8L/auto
00 Suburban LS 4x2, white, 5.3L/auto
97 IH 4700 19' rollback, DT444/auto
95 3500HD Chevron wrecker, 350/auto
92 F450 17' rollback, IDI/5spd

Quartlow
Forum Newbie
Posts 55
09-22-12 12:03 PM - Post#2272239    

  • tibbitts Said:
I hate to resort to lawsuite, which are way overdone (being burned by hot coffee, etc.) but in this case I think this is a safety issue AND A design defect issue and it is warranted<br /><br />Paul



Just a little FYI.

Stella was not driving when she pulled the lid off her scalding McDonald's coffee. Her grandson was driving the car, and he had pulled over to stop so she could add cream and sugar to the cup.

Stella was burned badly (some sources say six percent of her skin was burned, other sources say 16 percent was) and needed two years of treatment and rehabilitation, including skin grafts. McDonald's refused an offer to settle with her for $20,000 in medical costs.

You can read the rest hear. http://www.stellaawards.com/stella.html
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